HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/03/1975CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Minutes of the special Council meeting of the City Council of Apple Valley, Dakota
County, Minnesota, held on September 3rd, 1975, at 7:00 o'clock p.m., as set by
the City Council on August 13th, 1975
PRESENT: Mayor Largen; Councilmen Garrison, Hayes, Holton and Branning (attended
at 8:15 p.m.); Clerk Asleson.
ABSENT: None.
Public Hearing - Project 75-88 - Sanitary Sewer, Water, Storm Sewer and Street
Improvements in the Farquar Lake Area. Mayor Largen called the hearing to order
at 7:10 p.m. and said the hearing would be held in two parts. First, storm sewer
and the drainage area to Farquar Lake would be discussed. Second, possible con-
struction of sanitary sewer, water and some street improvements around Farquar Lake
would be discussed. The second part has been included to give the people some idea
of the costs of this construction.
Jim Nelson, representing the Farquar Lake Homeowners Association, commented on the
high water problems around the Lake and showed slides of the area and the road
around it. He said the Association requested a study of storm sewer and sanitary
sewer to find out how expensive it would be to solve the problems, and feels the
installation of a lift station is definitely necessary. Mayor Largen said when
the City's Master Storm Sewer Plan was designed, this was included in the plan
but it was not believed the installation would be necessary quite this soon..
Mayor Largen read the affidavit of publication and asked the City Engineer, Robert
Rosene, to review the preliminary report. Mr. Rosene said the Greenleaf area is
involved in this public hearing only with respect to storm sewer. He showed por-
tions of the Master Storm Sewer Plan and gave some background on the development
of it; utilizing storm water through ponding systems and decreasing the rate of
runoff. Farquar Lake is the lowest end of the ponding chain in that area and there
is no place for storm water to go from that point.
Mr. Rosene mentioned that consideration was given to lowering Farquar Lake by
temporary pumping on land to the east or to the north, but the Lake level would
only be lowered about one foot and the cause of the problem would still be there.
Mr. Rosene said installation of a sanitary sewer force main is being considered
now because it would also require a lift station in approximately the same area
as the storm sewer lift station. If both lift stations were installed at the same
time, approximately $20,000 in construction costs would be saved because the exca-
vation and site restoration could be done only once. He said the report also
included installation of a well to raise and maintain the lake level if it became
too low in the future. He then explained the operation of the lift station and how
it would go into operation only when the lake level becomes too high,
Mr. Rosene showed the locations of the ponding areas in Greenleaf and how they
eventually flow into Farquar Lake. He said the cost of the trunk storm sewer
facilities necessary to provide relief to the Farquar area would be approximately
$100 per lot or $150 per acre in the undeveloped areas.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 2
Mayor Largen restated that the estimate is approximately $100 per lot and the
assessment would probably be spread over 20 years with eight percent interest.
He then called for questions from the audience. (Detail of questions and answers
attached.)
After everyone with questions or comments on the first part of the hearing was
given an opportunity to be heard, Mayor Largen asked Mr. Rosene to comment on the
second part of the hearing; sanitary sewer, water and some street improvements for
the Farquar Lake area.
Mr. Rosene showed what could be provided for the area with a sanitary sewer lift
station and a water main loop around the lake, and also explained oversizing charges,
etc. He explained using a temporary lift station to lower the lake level now and
the installation of a permanent lift station i.n spring. He also said the sanitary
sewer lift station could be installed now, but sanitary sewer laterals would not
be installed until later when needed or requested by the property owners.
Mayor Largen then called for questions from the audience. (Details of questions and
answers attached.) After everyone with questions or conmlents was given an oppor-
tunity to be heard, the Mayor declared the hearing closed at 11:20 p.m.
Maypr Largen reviewed the alternatives presented during the public hearing. The
City could do nothing about the Lake level problem. The Lake could be pumped
for a temporary solution. The storm sewer lift station and force main could be
installed. The sanitary sewer lift station and force main and water main could
be installed. The estimated cost for installation of the storm sewer lift station
and force main with two pumps is $204,300 and the estimated cost for the sanitary
sewer lift station and force main is $82,300 if installed with the storm sewer.
No sanitary sewer laterals would need to be installed at the present time, however
if lake water monitoring reports showed problems with the water quality, the
laterals could be installed then. Water main could be extended from the Farquar
Hills area and if water laterals were installed the same time as sanitary sewer
laterals there would be a definite cost saving.
Councilman Holton said he would still like to see more consideration given to a
temporary solution for lowering the Lake level. He expressed concern about the
possibility of assessments forcing the Camp Fire Girls Camp and other owners of
larger pieces of property to sell out. He also said once the area becomes more
developed, there will be more property owners to share the costs.
Councilman Garrison said he believes it is more than a wet cycle affecting the level
of the lake and is in favor of installing the storm sewer and sanitary sewer lift
stations and force mains now. Every year there are more homes being constructed in
the area affecting the storm water runoff.
Councilman Hayes said he appreciates the problem of the people around Farquar Lake
but believes the solution needs more study.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 3
Mayor Largen said the Master Storm Sewer Plan was done with much planning and was
not rushed. This has shown that some day this storm sewer would need to be installed.
He said the City does have a responsibility for the area and a temporary solution
would not save any money in the long run. Maybe more checking of the Lake levels
during the past few years should be done, but temporary solutions are not feasible.
Councilman Branning said he would want more data before ordering a temporary
solution, but he does agree with the long range solution to lowering the Lake level.
The City Clerk commented on time considerations in getting the project underway
and involved in having the Engineer prepare plans and specifications.
MOTION: of Garrison, seconded by Largen, adopting Resolution No. 1975-119~directing
the Engineer to prepare plans and specifications on Project 75-88 for storm
sewer and sanitary lift stations and force mains installed along the County
Road 33 alignment and authorizing the City Attorney to begin negotiating
for easements along the best engineering location of the trunk line.
Ayes - 3 - Nays - 2 (Hayes and Holton).
The meeting was adjourned at 12:14 o'clock a.m.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Details of Questions and Answers from Public Hearing on Project 75-88.
Jack Finnegan asked what happened to storm water in past years, hasn't it always
flowed into the Lake? Shouldn't the developer be made to pay for this? Why is
the cost $150 per acre on undeveloped land? The cost is based on approximately
1.6 lots per acre or $100 per lot which is very close to $150 per acre. Stopping
development would not solve the problem since there are already many homes con-
structed in that area. Mr. Finnegan asked if this would be the last assessment for
his area. He was told this could never be guaranteed to anyone. Councilman
Garrison commented on the storm sewer philosophy of ponding storm water and having
developers dedicate land for ponding areas. Mr. Finnegan said let Thompson pay
the bill.
Paul Elvin of the Lapaz Addition asked for an estimate of how many homes would
benefit. Mr. Rosene said approximately 2,200 acres but he was not sure how many
homes that would be. More than just those immediately surrounding the Lake benefit.
He also asked how the assessment would be handled, by acre or by home. That has not
yet been determined.
Tom Newman asked if the Council is in favor of this action? Largen said the Council
is responsible for the public health, safety and welfare and for handling problems
related to that. Mr. Newman asked who would decide if this project is to be in-
stalled the Council or a bond issue? The Council makes this decision.
Dave Voelke asked some questions of Jim Nelson. How many homes are on the Lake?
Approximately 25. Do any homes have septic tank problems? Some. What is the
value of the homes on the Lake? No idea. Is there public access to Farquar Lake?
An area on the southwest corner of the Lake is dedicated to the City with an option
to acquire additional acreage by 1977. What is the quality of the Lake? It is
getting somewhat green from stome water runoff and fertilizer. What will happen
when there is more runoff and if, in another five years, the Lake becomes so green
it is not usable, will the pumping have been for nothing? Mr. Rosene said it is
better for the water to be moving through the Lake than allowing it to become
stagnant with no outlet. How long has Mr. Nelson been aware of the necessity of
lowering the Lake? About four years.
Mayor Largen referred to the Crystal Lake problem in Burnsville and said that
Lake was very low in 2934 and is now causing high water problems. The storm water
runoff problem is the responsibility of everyone because of rooftops, driveways,
streets, etc. Ail conceivable improvement costs could have been included when the
property was developed, but it was not known when these improvements would have been
necessary and would only have increased the cost of the homes to the point where
some people might not have been able to qualify for mortages.
Mr. Voelke asked whether the system could handle another wet year like this has
been? Mr. Rosene said yes, it is being designed with enough capacity.
Robert Petersdorf asked if the pond near Galaxie Avenue is included? No. He said
he would rather have a pipe installed so his area could drain into that pond then.
He feels the entire City should pay the bill rather than just this area.
William Ahlberg, an attorney representing residents on Embry Way (Ross Addition)
asked if this hearing includes sanitary sewer and water for this area? No.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page - 2 - Detail
Roger Kastel asked who designed the present storm sewer system? Bonestroo, Rosene,
Anderlik & Associates, Inc. He said there is always water standing at 150th Street
and Galaxie Avenue after a rain and feels the system is defective. Mr. Rosene ex-
plained part of the storm sewer system. Councilman Holton said the design is all
right but it has not yet been fully implemented in that area.
Councilman Branning attended at this time.
Mr. Kastel said the contractor is at fault by causing runoff and erosion.problems
around Long Lake. What is the footage around Farquar Lake? Not exactly known.
There should be public access to this Lake! There is and will be more.
Bill Barrott of the Farquar Lake area commented on understanding the feelings of
the people living in the Greenleaf Additions, but even though this has been a wet
year, more of the problem was caused by runoff, than rainfall, from the homes in
that area.
Dave Larson said he doesn't believe people in the Greenleaf Additions should be
responsible for paying for this. When they moved in, they assumed all assessments
were paid. He doesn't believe the lift station is necessary and may only be needed
this year and never again. Councilman Garrison and Holton replied that the area is
responsible and it was not known when this storm sewer would need to be installed.
Robert Brown asked whether it would be feasible to allow Farquar Lake to raise
higher since not many homes are involved? He was told the DNR determines the level
of lakes and they have reviewed the Master Storm Sewer Plan. He asked whether it
wouldn;t be less expensive to buy up the homes around the lake and install a lift
station of only half the size? No, installing a smaller lift station would not
save very much in construction costs.
Jake O'Toole asked if any of the holding ponds were ruptured this spring to allow
them to darin. No, but the pond at 132nd and Fairgreen was provided with an outlet
as part of the construction of Fairgreen Avenue so it will only raise to a certain
level. He also asked about the location of sanitary sewer trunks from the Greenleaf
area and it was shown on the map.
Ray Quist asked what assistance people in Greenleaf could have in maintaining the
levels on holding ponds which have now become swamps when the water levels are
down? Mr. Rosene said they were swampy low areas before they were made into hold-
ing ponds, but in the future they can be cleaned up by the property owners around
them. Mr. Quist said he feels the developer should have projected the need for this
storm sewer and paid for it, not the residents.
Urban Schneider questioned the method of assessment. He has only acreage which has
not been built on and is not causing the runoff problem. He was told the assessment
method must be worked out yet.
A man from 136th Street asked how much water goes from the holding ponds to the
Lake? He also commented about children possibly falling into the holding ponds.
Water from all the ponds goes into the Lake and there would be more problems if
the ponds were fenced. The ponds in the parks are maintained by the City and the
private ones by the home owners around them.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 3 - Detail
Ron Reed asked when will the assessments for this occur and are these costs a
fixed amount or an estimate? The costs are not actually known until the bids for
the project have been received and the assessments would not be levied until the
fall of 1976. Why wouldn't this be a bond issue? It would be a bond issue, but not
a general obligation bond issue, the assessments guarantee the bonds. Mr. Reed
said he would like to go on record that the storm sewer should have been planned
for when the developer constructed the area.
James Ostlie asked where the water would go as it flows south to Lakeville? It
eventually flows into the Vermillion River. Wnen will the well be built? Unknown,
it would probably be sometime in the future but the Council will have to decide.
He said it's time people stopped building around lakes and allowed the public to
use them.
Tim Crichton said he feels this matter is being handled in a responsible manner
and everyone is forgetting that Thompson is not going to pay these assessments.
He asked about the erosion Thompson has allowed to go into Long Lake. Much of it
has been stopped and he is controlling and repairing the damage done. He asked if
Thompson was supposed to build dikes before he began construction in those areas?
He did in some places.
Rodney Ebbenga asked what the water levels of Farquar Lake have been during the last
five years? Mr. Rosene said they have not been monitored every year but this year
the level jumped three feet. Jim Nelson said it about 17 years the lake has
varied by about two feet. He marked the meander line when he moved there and the
Lake level is now well over that. Mr. Ebbenga asked what the Lake level would
have been in a year with normal rainfall? Not known. The Lake level is high now
and with any spring runoff it will increase. Mr. Ebbenga asked if this would be
the last assessment or could there be future problems to pay for? Yes, perhaps
someday there could be a Vermillion watershed district formed which would include
us. He asked if the well construction is being considered now? It is not known
yet but it is not needed now; if it were installed in the future it would fill
three ponds.
Nancy Sheffield asked if representatives of Thompson's office were notified of
this project? They were sent mailed notice just like everyone else because that
company still owns some of the land.
Jack Krueger asked if the only assessment for him would be the storm sewer? Yes.
Charles Curry of the Lapaz Addition asked what assessments would be involved for
his area? Only the trunk storm sewer.
Tom Weber asked about the open drainage ditch through the field south, who would
have to pay the cost of covering it in the future? Whoever develops that property
and they would also have to install lateral storm sewer. An easement for such a
drainage ditch would have to be obtained.
Joe Mahovsky asked if construction were started today, when would the lift station
be operating? It is hoped temporary operation can be accomplished by,the time the
spring melt begins and it would be~completed in the summer. Would this really solve
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 4 - Detail
the problems or would it only create more problems farther down the river?
Hopefully most of the water will settle back into the ground in holding ponds
as it goes south. Who pays for future maintenance costs of the system? Everyone,
the general fund budget pays for the maintenance.
Tom Newman asked about bond issues again. The improvement bond issues were briefly
explained. He asked how the Council will decide on this project? The Council is
taking public comment now and a decision will be made later.
Tom Weber asked about tree damage around the Lake. Are the Lake homeowners contem-
plating a lawsuit against the City because of it? Jim Nelson said no.
Alma Moser said they had water problems this spring because their home is built on
clay and it cost over $2,000 to repair. The people around the Lake should take care
of their own problems.
Ron Hughes asked Jim Nelson if, as a member of the Planning Commission, he worried
about the trees on the west end of Long Lake when they were bulldozed out? Nelson
said sometimes implementation of plans cause problems. He asked Mr. Rosene if the
utilities for Greenleaf 10th Addition are still adequate as he said they were at the
public hearing for them? Yes, and they still are adequate, but this is an additional
part of the system. He asked about a cross section map showing the outlet from
Long Lake to Farquar Lake. There is no map like that but there is a topography map
here. Mr. Hughes asked if the Zoo entrance road would be going through this drain-
age area and could that runoff be handled. Yes it does and the runoff would be
handled by the storm sewer. He also questioned the street light assessment in
Greenleaf 5th Addition and asked if the well would also be handled that way.
Daryl Tweeton asked why temporary pumping couldn't be done and then wait and see
if a lift station is really needed? Temporary pumping is not really feasible and
would need to be done several times to reduce the Lake level enough. He also asked
about the term benefitted property? Ail property that would benefit by the drainage.
Fred Meyers asked about the location of the golf course. Would it be possible to
pump this excess water to the golf course and use it for irrigation? Yes it would
be possible but not practical or economical.
Jim Frisbee, representing residents in the Woods Addition, said they are not ob-
jecting to the assessment for the storm sewer but feel the people around the Lake
should pay for the well to pump water into the Lake if it is installed. He asked
how much water came into Farquar Lake this year as opposed to years before the
Greenleaf Additions were developed. Quantities not available.
Mayor Largen asked about the Engineer's estimates and how they were arrived at?
The pipes are designed for rates of flow and not quantities of water. Also the
planned uses for the land are considered in designing the system.
Frisbee said all the water from the Woods is ponded and does not go into the Lake.
Rosene said the installation of an outlet from that poDd is anticipated when lateral
storm sewer, sanitary sewer and water are installed. This hearing includes the in-
stallation of lateral sanitary sewer, water and street improvements in the Woods.
The storm sewer cost for the Woods would be estimated at about $150 per acre.
CITY 0FAPPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 5 - Detail
Mr. Frisbee asked about the levels of Farquar and Long Lakes. Long Lake is higher
than Farquar Lake and flows into it. It is thought the level of Farquar Lake should
be about 899 feet. Mr. Frisbee asked about the estimates for trunk and lateral
water mains and presented a folder with a survey of the residents in the Woods
Addition on whether they want sanitary sewer, water and street improvements.
Tracy Kubista asked if the homes around the lake are in danger now. Jim Nelson
said yes, in terms of sanitary conditions. He asked about septic tank locations
and who established the water line.
William Ahlberg asked if this hearing includes sanitary sewer and water for the
people on Embry Way? No, that hearing was held about a year ago. The only assess-
ments affecting the Ross Addition is the $150 per acre charge for storm sewer,
because they are part of the drainage area. He said he would like to go on record
for the people in that area stating their opposition to the project and then read
the names.
The City Clerk asked Mr. Frisbee if the Woods still has problems with the streets,
as it did this spring, with flooding? Mr. Frisbee said that was the first time the
City was ever asked to do anything in that area and it is the first time since 1965
the pond has ever caused a problem.
Mr. Ahlberg asked what the water levels on Farquar Lake have been in the last five
years. The question was not answered before and should be given more consideration.
He also asked what kind of damage has been done to these homes?
John Loch said the increased runoff in the ponds has been caused by home construction.
He also disagrees with Mr. Frisbee about water sitting in the pond there and not
going anywhere. It does go down and raise the water table.
Frisbee said the U.S.G.S. maps of 1951 showed Farquar Lake at 895 feet and Long
Lake at 899 feet.
Jim Nelson, representing the Farquar Lake area, said the majority of them are against
installing sanitary sewer, water and street improvements because of the cost and they
really don't want more development in the area.
William Barrott said he is in favor of all proposed improvements for the area be-
cause it would improve the quality of the Lake by closing the septic systems and
the construction costs will keep going up in the future and some day it will all
have to be done anyway. Daryl Tweeton disagreed on the economics of it with him.
Daryl Tweeton asked about the southern area of the assessment district where the
trunk sanitary sewer line has already been installed. Would only be assessed once.
Mike Reinert bought a lot on 132nd Street and asked if he will need to install a
well and a septic tank system or if he would be able to connect to the City's system?
That is not included in this hearing, but it is not now available there.
A man asked if sanitary sewer and water is available to the Farquar Hills Addition?
Yes it has already been installed.
Tracy Kubista commented that the assessments would force owners of larger pieces
of property off their land.
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
Dakota County, Minnesota
September 3, 1975
Page 6 - Detail
Bill Barrott asked if the Camp Fire Girls land would be assessed? Yes it is in-
cluded. Mayor Largen read a letter from Mr. Donahue, an attorney for the Camp Fire
Girls, stating the hardship this assessment would cause for the Camp.
Bill Rabbe said Jim Nelson did speak for the people around Farquar Lake; they are
opposed to installation of sanitary sewer and water and street improvements.
The question was asked about monitoring the quality of water in the Lakes. The
City should be receiving a report shortly on the samples already taken.
Joan Goering said the problem is a man-made situation and the entire community will
be using the Lake and should help pay for it.
The City Clerk said he had a conversation with the attorney for the Camp Fire Girls,
Mr. Donahue, and this property must be considered in the assessment. When the East
Trunk Sewer was assessed it was not included, but knew it would be the next time
sewer construction came up again.