Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/21/1997CITY OF APPLE VALLEY PLANNING COMMISSION MIlViJTE5 MAY 21, 1997 1. CALL TO ORDER The City of Apple Valley Plam~ing Commission meeting was called to order at 7:04 p.m.. Members Present: Alan Fellmer, Frank Blundetto, Diane Nagler, Marcia Gowling, Jce McNamara Paul Oberg and Karen Edgeton. Members Absent: None Staff Present: Rick Kelley, Kathy Bodmer, Tom Lovelace, Keith Gordon and Mike Dougherty. Others Present: See the sign-in sheet. 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Chair Fellmer noted that item no. 6E, the site plan review and building permit authorization for a dental office, has been removed from the agenda and is expected to be considered at the next meeting in two weeks. Chair Felkner then asked Staff and the Coirnnission members if they had any other changes to the proposed agenda. There being no other changes, Chair Fellarer called for the amended agenda to be approved. MOTION: Cowling moved, seconded by Blundetto, to approve the agenda as amended. The motion carried 7 - 0. 3. APPROVAL OF MAY 7,1997 MINUTES Chair Fellmer asked Staff and the Commissioners if they had any changes to the draft minutes submitted in the packet. Commission Nagler noted that on p. 6 in the discussion over the conditional use pemut for extended hours for CAMAS that she had asked a question which was not reflected in the minutes. The question had to do with how long the mining would take if the extended hours were not approved. The answer she received at the meeting was between four and six months. There being no other changes, Chair Fellrner called for a motion to approve the minutes. MOTION: McNamara. moved, seconded by Edgeton, to approve the minutes as amended. The motion carried 6- 0, with 1 abstention (Oberg). 4. CONSENT ITEMS - None - 5. PUBLIC HEARINGS A. Transit Hub and Movie Theater Chair Fellmer opened the public hearing with the standard remarks. Community Development Director Rick Kelly introduced himself and made the presentation on this proposal. The property is located on the east side of Cedar Avenue between 155th and 157th Street. The property is currently designated on the comprehensive plan for a combination of neighborhood commercial, high density, medium density and limited business uses. It is currently caned under a planned unit development for similaz uses. It is proposed to Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 2 change the comprehensive plan to allow as additional uses certain retail business for commercial recreation and civic uses to provide for a transit hub park `ri ride facility. In conjunction with the comprehensive plan amendment, the plaffied unit development zoning would be amended at the same time to allow for the movie theater and transit hub uses. Also, the hearing concerns a replat to reconfigure the existing outlots to provide for a new system of lots and blocks to accommodate the transit hub and the movie theater. Also, existing Garrett Drive would be changed into acute-sac and a new north(south street would be provided closer to Cedaz Avenue. This new north/south street would be the one for which driveway access to the movie theater and transit hub would be provided. Kelley noted that a representative of the movie theater and commercial development is here this evening. Mr. Wendell Smith stated he is representing Anthony Properties, which will be the developer of the commercial uses. in particular, the 16-screen movie theater would be leased to Camuke Ciueuias, the largest commercial movie exhibition company in the United States. Smith stated he had hoped to have samples of the building materials of the theater this evening, but unfortnnately Carmike Cinemas is in the process of chauging their exterior image and colors. He hopes to have more detailed information available at the neat meeting. Chair Felkner then opened the hearing to the general public. Janet Price of 15636 Garrett Drive stated she is concerned over the traffic that would be genemted from this proposal, particularly as it relates to safety of young children. She said there are aheady problems with the amount of traffic and pazking 6n the street going on by Menards, and that this will just make problems worse. She does not think the neighborhood needs this type of development. Jana Elsberry of 7318 157th Street stated she is concerned over the amount of traffic that would be generated, and particularly the potential for vandalism. She said her car has already been vandalized once overnight, and that now with more kids and activity as late as midnight, things will just be worse. She said she is also concerned over the people who live in the apartment complex on the south side of 157th Street being able to get out to 157th with the additional traffic that will be generated from this use. She is concerned over the impact on the residential neighborhood. Don Stohl of 15644 Garrett Drive said his biggest concern is over the future multi-housing area noted on the northeast comer of the plan. He asked if it was going to be a rental project, and if so, how would their property values be affected. Kelley noted that the city's caning ordinance controls density and design of housing units, but does not have the ability to control whether housing units are owner occupied or rental. Jn addition, the city is mandated under the Livable Communities Act to continue to provide sites for rental and moderate cost housing. He said that in this particulars case, while the city does not have a purchase agreement with them, the Dakota County HRA has expressed an interest in putting rental townhomes here to complement their existing senior housing project. The types of housing the Dakota County HRA puts up are typically a row townhome unit for families as opposed to an apartment unit, which is generally limited to the senior housing market. Scott Beagles of 7185 Upper 157th Street stated there are additional single family homes to the south and east of 157th Street, and he believes the aznount of traffic this proposed project would generate will tend to isolate the existing residential neighborhood from the downtown. He said currently many people take the sidewalk system along Garrett Drive irxto downtown, but he is afraid that if this project generates more traffic, it would be too difficult for pedestrians to cross 157th Street. Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 3 Janet Price reapproached the podium and stated there is already a movie theater in Apple Valley, and she does not see the need to haue another one. Chair Felkner noted it is not the city's position to use its wring authority to try to comrol the mazketplace. An unidentified resident asked about the rental apartmems shown on the site plan. Kelley noted that the Orchard Square area has one existing 50-unit aparhnent building, and the site plan indicates where a future 50-unit building would be constmcted sometime after the year 2000. Commissioner Dowling asked that information on the amount of traffic that would be generated from this project be provided. Kelley noted that the city's traffic consultant is evaluating this project, and information will be available at the next meeting. Dowling asked that information on the amount of traffic that will be generated from uses that are currerly permitted also be provided. Commissioner Edgeton asked that a list of those pemutted uses also be included for the next Plauuing Commission meeting. Commissioner Blundetto asked if the project meets the 60% greenspace requirement. Kelley noted that the 60% requirement would apply to any new multi-family uses on the site. Ju this case the townhome area in the northeast corner has not yet been designed, ahhough some proposed greenway corridors are being illustrated over a portion of the site. He noted the city does not have a minimum greeuspace requirement fur commercial uses. Commissioner McNamara asked if a possible right-in access to Cedar Avenue had been evaluated. Kelley noted that the county highway department has evaluated such a request and has indicated it would not be allowed. Commissioner Oberg stated he is concerned about the amount of traffic that would be generated, both in the morning and in evening hours as it relates bath to the transit operation and the theater. He asked if a possible design had been considered which would access the site only from 155th, leaning 157th Street for the residential neighborhoods. Kelley said a number of different designs had been evaluated, and that the transit operator, as well as Dakota County, have stated that anorth/south street connection between 157th and 155th must be part of the project. Mr. Reagles asked how soon this proposed pazk `n ride facility would be used up. Kelley stated that currently 120 pazking slots are being utilized at the transit facility at Grace Lutheran and the Apple Valley Squaze center. This project contains 484 dedicated spaces for park `n riders. he stated that because Apple Valley, and this location in particulaz, represents the very southern fi-inge of the MVTA service azea, it is difficult to estimate when the park `n ride lot would be at capacity. They believe it will be at least two years and probably longer. In any everrt, it is the MVTA's current policy to provide for several transit hubs over time throughout its service area. This transit hub would be the second, and a third one is planned for the City of Eagan. Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 4 There being no fiuther comments, Chair Felkner closed the public hearing with the standards remarks. 6. LAND USE/ACTION ITEMS A. Prairie Crossing Assistant Planner Kathy Bodmer presented this item for the project located on the very east side of the city, south of Courrty Road 42 and north of Dodd Boulevazd. The properly is currently desiguatecl on the city's comprehensive plan for low density uses and caned agricultural. It is proposed to amend the comprehensive plan to provide for a limited amount of neighborhood commercial directly at the intersection of County Road 42 and Dodd Boulevazd and to rewne the entire pazcel into a planned unit development that will provide for the neighborhood commercial and a mixture of different attached and detached housing types. Bodmer then displayed a series of overhead transparencies that outlined the issues the developer needed to address based on input from the Commission and questions raised at the public hearing held at the previous meeting. She indicated that there is still no proposal for sidewalks on the private street; however, the public street is now showing a sidewalk on one side of the street and the houses set back an additional 5 feet from the property line to accommodate the space needed by the sidewalk. She said that the developer and staff believe that this would be the most important public sidewalk location because the public street is a tme design which would have the highest traffic levels. Concerns raised over the commercial azea included excessive noise. She said the developer has proposed that the car wash bay have extra sound insulation, that the doors be kept closed during wash operations, and the hours for commercial uses be limited, as well as control over the delivery and trash pickup times. She also noted that the developer is proposing significant corrtrol over the location and height of the lighting in order to prevent light from spilling out of the property boundaries. The traffic analysis performed by SEH indicated that traffic will in fact increase, but only by minor amounts. A small modification of the exit drive from the commercial area will provide a separate lane from both right and left fuming movements to minimise the amount of traffic that would back up on site. Bodmer noted that if the bem~s are properly designed and landscaped, they will work to block both visual and noise pollution. She said that staff analysis indicates the church on the northeast corner of County Road 42 and Dodd would not be impacted by the proposed commercial use. The proposed gasoline fuel sales is being driven by a private marketplace decision, and the city does not attempt to restrict private marketplace decisions with its zornng regulations. She stated the developer has indicated they can restrict the hours of delivery for fuel tanker delivery. Also, the other retail uses in the two buildings across the parking lot from the convenience grocery and fuel sales would also receive their deliveries from the front of the store. Regazding the request that the city restrict the hours of operation to no later than 7:00 p.m., Bodmer noted that the city's current most restrictive requirement for commercial use is for business operations to cease at I:00 a.m. Bodmer then displayed a tmnspazency which indicated the general location of the Dodd Boulevard realignment into figure Diamond Path extended on the very east side of the property, as well as potential extension of 153rd Street from the city's downtown commercial area to intersect a realigned Dodd intersection at Pilot Knob Road. Bodmer noted that the realignment of Dodd Boulevazd and the extension of Diamond Path is expected to occur within the next two to three years. The realignment of Dodd Boulevazd at Pilot Knob Road, however, is at least five years away, and most likely longer. Typically a new speed study to deterniine an appropriate speed limit on a road is done at the time it is either upgraded or reconstructed. It would be Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 5 appropriate to request the Minnesota Departrnent of Transportation to do a speed study at the time the realignment has been done at Diamond Path. The speed limit determination would be ruade on the amount of traffic on the road the number of access poims, and the relative speed at which crurerrt vehicles aze traveling. Commissioner Nagler asked if it had been considered to extend 153rd Street along the half section line (155th Street aligmnent) straight east to intersect Diamond Path. City Engineer Keith Gordon stated that no thought had been given to such an alignment. He did note, however, that there would be another easUwest street at about the 157th Street alignment between Pilot Knob Road and Diamond Path. Bodmer stated that other safety issues raised at the hearing included a possible consideration of a four- way stop sign at Dodd Boulevard and either 152nd Street or Dunbaz Avenue. She stated that currerly the warrants do not justify such afour-way stop sign. Concerning the existing conditions on Dodd Boulevard, it is right now a relatively open road so that traffic tends to travel at high speeds. It is currently signed fora 50 mph speed limit. Under such conditions it would not be expected that children would have an easy time crossing Dodd Boulevazd to get to Apple Valley East Pazk or to cross Couni Road 42 to Diamond Path Park. She said that the accident records at the Apple Valley Police Department indicate that during 1996 two occurred at the intersection of County Road 42 and Dodd Boulevazd and four elsewhere along Dodd Boulevard. She said by way of wmparison, the busiest intersection in the city, which is the Cedar Avenue and County Road 42 intersection, had 42 accidents in 1996. The proposed trees in the landscape plan would be a 2 1/2" caliper, and that the reference to how the city's curfew would be enforced with an attractive nuisance such as the commercial area would be handled the same as in other commercial areas throughout the community. Relative to the concern about an increase in crime, Bodmer noted that whenever there are more residents, the absolute numbers or instances of crime are expected to increase. Bodmer stated that the question raised on how the vacant lot to the south might be addressed if this conunercial project is approved could not be adequately addressed until such time as a specific building pemtit application were submitted to the city. she stated that if they were caned for residential use, she would expect that a pemut would be gi~arrted. Bodmer noted that the compazison asked for about the density of the proposed villas in this project to the townhomes in Gazdenview Place indicates that the density here is less than those in Gazdenview Place, or in the other Rottlund project, the Homers Run Villas. She did note, however, that in the proposed project if it is calculated sepazately and broken out from the rest of the neighborhood, the greenspace in it is somewhat less than the greenspace in either Gardenvicw Place or Hunters Run. She said that at its meeting the previous night the Apple Valley Park and Recreation Advisory Committee asked for dedication of between a 5 and 6 acre parcel on the west side of the property for pazk purposes. She said the Park Advisory Committee felt that this would allow a park to be combined with a future pazk dedication from the property on the west, which is currently subject to sand and gravel rniuing, to allow a much larger joined pazk paccel. She stated that planning staff has concerns over the difference in elevations in that the finished topography when mining is completed will indicate a relatively steep slope along the east border of the proposed Prairie Crossing project, which does not allow any type of pedestrian connection. It would also result in a park containing a significant amount of land devoted to a steep slope which would be essentially unusable. Bodmer went on to note that the master sand and gravel EIS plan indicated a pazk in the existing mining area more centrally located, not adjacern to this proposed project. Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 6 Conunission Nagler asked if the developer had provided proposed elevations of the rear of the two commercial buildings. Bodmer stated they did not, but noted that the ordinance requires that all building faces in wmmercial projects must be treated as a front. Commissioner Edgeton asked if there were any additional detail available conceniug the possible design of the gasoline sales canopy. Bodmer noted that no fixrther information has been provided. Chair Fellamer asked if the 47% geenspace calculation in the villas had been changed or modified. Bodmer stated that they bane not, but they continue to believe that the total greenspace in the project should count towards the villas azea. Fellmer stated he didn't believe it should be counted because they do not abut the green area. Commmissioner Blundetto stated he felt that it was a different type of project than others, and there is not a public street separation between the two areas. He thinks that this type of project is a completely different animal. There was a general discussion among the wxnxnissioners concerning greenspace issues. Blundetto stated he continues to believe that in a planned unit development with a neoh-aditional design the development needs to be looked at as a single neighborhood. Commissioner Oberg asked if staff had come up with specific wording on the pemmitted uses in this neighborhood center area to prevent "highway commercial" uses or design. Bodmer stated they have not yet come up with language, and that typically such language would only be provided if the City Council gives preliminary approval to the planned unit development. Commissioner Edgeton noted that the developer has expressed a willingness to provide front porches on 50% of the units and asked that that be included in the planned unit developmment. Bodmer stated it could be included in the PUD ordinance, although it is typically included in the resolution approving the site plan and building pemmit. Fellarer asked what planning staffs recomnmendation was conceminou the Parks Advisory Committee recommendation for pazk dedication. Bodmer stated that because of the proposed steep grades and the fact that the gravel azea would not be mined and reclaimed for at least five to six yeazs from now, it did not appear to make sense to put a public park on the west side of the Prairie Crossing project. Mike Falls approached the podium and stated he would continue to try to address the concerns raised by the Commission. He said that in this planned unit development they are continuing to use design elememrts to address the issue of perceived density. Part of this would be to keep the garage faces plush or behind the front porch area of the detached units. He said there will an option on all fomrs of the detached housing, and they guarantee that at least 50% of them would have porches constructed on them. He noted that porches on the rear of the row townhomes that back up to the greenway would also have an option for porches. Concerning sidewallcs, they aze proposing a public sidewalk on the east side of the public street from Dodd Boulevard to County Road 42. He said all the internal walkways through the common greenspace would also be retained. This combination of pedestrian ways link all of the project together to the villas and out to the comnmercial area. In addition, a pathway would be constructed along County Road 42 from Dundee eastward, and an escrow for a fixture pathway along County Road 42 from Dundee westward would be established with the city. Falk said they just learned today of the issue of the proposed pazk dedication and have not yet formulated a response. He said the neighborhood commercial uses would be those that cater to the daily and weekly goods and services needs of the residents in this neighborhood and the neighborhoods on the other three quadrants surrounding the proposed project. He said they will limit the hours of delivery, recess lighting in the Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 7 gas canopy to control spillo~ limit the hours of trash collection, modify the PA's speakers for communication to patrons at the gas pumps from the megaphone style to the eye level style, to keep the car wash doors closed during operation, along with extra. insulation in the building and doors ofthe car wash. They would limit hours of the car wash operation if necessary. They will utilize a moving blower car dryer which can operate the door closed versus the old style mounted at the exit; they would control the design of the gas canopy to eliminate a back lit face, eliminate any stripes, and minimise signage; and they would use brick pillar surrounds to hold the canopy up to match the materials on the building. He said he is still struggling with the issue of how they could make the overall gas canopy residential in appearance other than to add some other type of small blomer or roof treatment. However, that may tend to increase the mass and bulk of the canopy to actually make it look lazger and emphasize its presence rather than downplay it. Falk then provided two site line studies to indicate how the commercial area would look from the Wensmamr townhornes in Rosemount, and from the existing Tutewohl house and adjacent properties south of Dodd Boulevard. He stated they have not prepazed a rear elevation of the commercial buildings, but does not believe this is terribly important since there will be no service doors or alleys along the backs of the building. Falk then referred to a photo of a Superarnerica and McDonalds restaurant complex located on the Bloomington/Eden Prairie border as an example of how the entrance azea onto the local streets can be downplayed and ruake the reaz elevations attractive. Falk said that, in addition, the proposed common pylon sign would have a base and roof structure to match the multi-tenant building, again emphasizing the residential appearance. Falk then attempted to address the issues of densities and grcenspace by having Rottlund distribute photos of similar villa projects throughout the metropolitan area and illustrate what the acd~al greenspace "feel" was like. He said they have attempted to design the Prairie Crossing project as a single neighborhood, and that the overall density of 4.7 dwelling units/acre is less than the maximum range provided for in the city's comprehensive plan of 3-6 dwelling units/acre. He said an awful lot of ponding area is being dedicated, and that the greenspace and trailways link the entire site together. Falk stated that-this last minute request from the Pazks Advisory Committee concerning dedication of land for a pazk was a surprise to them. Up to now they had planned and designed tins project based on initial city input that only a cash dedication for pazk purposes would be required in this project since it is located within a half mile of existing neighborhood pazks. Nagler stated that the issue of pazk dedication was brought up during the sketch plan. Falk stated he remembers that it was, but also that he believed their project was located within ahalf- mile of an existing park, and that no land would be taken from their project. Edgeton asked if the common pylon sign would be the only freestanding sign in the commercial azea. Falk stated it would be the only freestanding sign for the two multi-tenant buildings; however, there is proposed a lower monument sign at the entrance to Dodd Boulevazd, and this sign would contain most of the information concerning the motor fuel sales and convenience grocery store. He said they have not prepazed a drawing for this sign, but they would use similaz azchitecture as the pylon sign. Edgeton asked if the typical user of the motor fuel and convenience grocery operation would accept this limitation. Falk stated they have spoken with several pote~al users, and they aze okay with this proposal. There was achially more resistance to their requiremerrt drat there be no roof facia on the canopy over the fuel pumps. Oberg stated if this is intended to be a commercial center oriented towards neighborhood needs, why was it necessary to provide motor fuel sales and groceries. Falk stated that to be successful, any commercial Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 8 complex needs to have some type of "anchor tenant" that can generate the greatest amount of regulaz patronage. He said in a small-scale center, such as this, the motor fuel sales and convenience grocery operation is that anchor. Oberg asked what the commercial mix would actually be. Falk said they expect it to be such things as a bagel bakery and coffee shop, drycleaner, video rental and things of that nature. Oberg noted that most of that could be obtained in any Superamerica without a need for any additional freestanding retail. He also noted that in his opinion a significant amount of signage with a large logo is necessary to capture any pass-by traffic. Falk stated that they will be agreeing to relatively restrictive standards in the planned unit development ordinance, and if any particulaz user finds that they must have this type of large signage and highly visible location, they simply will not be the ones to choose to occupy the site. Cowling asked if the ultimate design and architecture of the convenience grocery and motor fuel sales operation would depend on who the ultimate tenant would be. Falk stated that it would to some extent. Cowling stated she really needs to see a proposed elevation for the convenience grocery/motor fuel sales operation to determine if it could really fit here. McNamara asked about the site line study again. He questioned whether it was truly in scale to adequately determine whether parked cazs and headlights would be screened by the bean. Blundetto asked about the 50% porch requirement, if that could be split so that along the public streets every other house has a porch at a minimum. Rottlund did agree to this commitment. Blundetto asked a question concerning the reference to the restriction on back lit gas canopy faces. Falk stated that it was the operators who stated they did not like that restriction, but did ultimately feel they could live with it. Nagler noted that in reviewing her records, the initial sketch plan indicated 22,000 s.f. of commercial azea while the project before them now indicates 29,000 s.f. of commercial azea. She said the commercial space did in fact grow and she feels some greenspace was lost as a result of this. She said that because no rear delivery azea is proposed on the multi-tenant buildings, she questions how deliveries will be handled on the front of the building when the use of the site by customers and patrons aze conflicting with them. She asked if there would be enough parking. Even if the site is designed to accommodate pedestrians, there are at least four to five months during the Minnesota winters when people are simply not going to walk to pick up convenience items, but will drive instead. She also said she will continue to have a concern over the village greenspace since much of it is actually paved and not landscaped. Falk stated that when he said the commercial area did not grow, he meant that the land azea devoted to the commercial uses was not larger, but he did concede that the buildings were somewhat larger than indicated in the sketch plan. He also noted that the greenspace area in the village green azea was not figured into the overall greenspace, but was above and beyond that. He said that because of the relative shallow depth of the commercial spaces in the multi-tenant buildings, the typical commercial occupants here would have much smaller delivery trucks which could easily park in the parking lot and delivery their goods via hand trucks or dollies through the front door. Edgeton noted that most delivery people will try to use front doors of businesses even when alley access is available. Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 9 Falk stated that pazking stalls are provided at the ratio of 5 stalls per 1000 gross squaze feet of buIlding azea. He said that in addition retaIlers tend to police themselves and not let their delivery people take up the prime parking stalls in front of the building to try to accommodate their customers as best they can. Edgeton asked if Falk would point out the modification requested by SEH. Falk stated they have not actually changed the plan yet, but they agree with and commit to make those modifications on the final construction plans. Richard Pahniter of Rottland Homes indicated that the villa townhome product is something they have built very many of throughout the metropolitan azea, and that the density, private drives and greenspace being provided is typical of those elsewhere which have been readily accepted by the marketplace and for which snow removal operations have been accommodated. Felkner asked staff again about access to the pazk, and about the half mile standazd the city has set. He wanted to know in particulaz if significant barriers between developments and pazk properties changed the half mile standard. Kelley stated the city has typically modified the half mile standard when a significant barrier, such as a four-lane highway, exists. He noted, however, that Dodd Boulevazd is a neighborhood collector, and typically that neighborhood collectors aze not considered to be bazriers. The speed limit is 50 mph at this time, however, which does make it more difficult to cross. Blandetto asked if it would be possible to establish some small park area on the south end of the pond. Kelley stated that while the city does have some small "vest pocket" parks in the south Apple Valley azea, the city policy is not to have more of those small. pazks because they tend to have higher maintenance costs because of their dispersal throughout the community. He said this might be a more appropriate location for a playscape azea to be constructed and established by the homeowners association. Pahniter said they would be willing to consider the establishment of such a private play azea, but he did not want to say they are defirritely objecting to a dedication of park land. Oberg stated with the recommendation from the Pazks Advisory Committee coming from just last night's meeting, no one has really had enough time to digest the recommendation. Blundetto asked about porches on the traditional single family homes, and asked how many of the "40" series homes there would be. Falk stated there aze 47 lots for this style home. However, he wanted to emphasize thew commitment to porches aze on all of the detached units, not just on the "40" series. Cowling asked if there would be porches on the townhomes. Falk stated the single loaded townhomes that front along the greenway would have an option for porches on the rear. Cowling asked if the detached units would have rear porches as well. Pahniter stated that rear porches would be an option on all of the detached units, and this has been calculated into the setback. Such porches will fit on all of the detached units without the need for a variance. Felkner stated he hates to delay a recommendation on this project, but that he believes with this recent pazk issue being brought up, it needs to be addressed before the Commission can make a recommendation. Palmiter asked if that meant the issue would have to go back to the Pazks Advisory Committee. Felkner stated that would not be the case, but he believes how a playscape could be Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 10 established in the common azea needs to be thought out and shown in the plan to the Commission before they can make a recommendation. Edgeton asked if the city had examples of what typically goes in a private playscape area. Kelley stated that there aze many examples throughout the community in other townhome and condominium areas. McNamaza stated he wanted to recap the issues here to make sure all of them can be addressed for the next meeting. The issues include the park dedication; greenspace in the villas; porch issue; design of the gas and convenience grocery store; issue of the road design and snow removaUstorage; and how the pathway escrow would be accommodated. Gowling asked again how the greenspace was calculated and wanted to know how much of it was in the commercial area as part of the overall neighborhood. Falk stated that because the city's greenspace policy relates only to multi-family, they computed it on all of the residential uses and simply left the greenspace in the commercial area out of the totals. He said that if it was added in, the total greenspace might increase from one to two percent. Blundetto stated he still believes this is an innovative project, and he said it unfortunately tends to be a good example of how new and innovative ideas tend not to be accommodated by established ordinances and policies. A general discussion among the commissioners ensued concerning densities of multi-family housing and greenspace. Falk stated that he wished the Commission to remember that in their design of this project they were under many constraints. In particular, the triangulaz shape of the parcel narrows at the eastern part of it such that it becomes a very undesirable location for any type of residential use, which is one of the reasons they are proposing neighborhood commercial. The very center of the site has an existing water and sewer line which creates a division they cannot build over. Finally, the requirements for a storm water pond were set by the city both in teens of location and azea. This pond serves much more than the neighborhood they aze proposing to build here. McNamaza asked if the pond area is used to determine the maximum density allowed on the site. Bodmer stated it is used; however, the city ordinance provides that no more than 10% of the site can be considered unbuildable and still used for density calculations. In this case, the total pond is about 6.6 acres out of the total 66 acres, or right at the total 10%. Nagler stated that it is important for the developer to remember that the city is trying to achieve the best possible design for future residents and access to greenspace. Edge[on noted that greenspace is also a concern of people passing by any particular neighborhood. The outward appearance of the total project is equally important. She said that if the townhome villa areas were a complete stand alone project it would be subject to the 60% greenspace requirement. She said in this case she was not sure what the minimum percentage should be. Blundetto noted that he had recently attended one of a series of conferences on new urbanism design put on by Metropolitan Council and other parties. He said that in all of them the emphasis has been on design of the project by use, and architecture and appearance, and to ignore the simple numbers regarding density or greenspace. Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 11 David Terwilliger stated he is the president of the Everleigh Townhome Association in Rosemount. He said the site line drawings really don't take into account that the existing trees are not near as tall and do not provide the level of screening illustrated. He said the accident rate at the intersection of County Road 42 and Dodd seems to be only those responded to by the Apple Valley Police Department. He said the Rosemount Police Department has also responded to accidents here, and the number is much lazger than has been represented. He said that the issue of noise from outdoor vacuum units at the car wash area have not been addressed. Also, nothing has really been talked about a to how you can diminish the noise generated by patrons of the facilities, such as loud car radios, hollering, etc. Also, the pylon signs being shown 20 feet high is higher than any of their houses. He asked if the entrance sign to Dodd would be eliminated. Ken Erickson of the Everleigh Townhome neighborhood stated that the back of his townhouse faces Dodd Boulevard currently. He asked where the new intersection would be when Diamond Path is extended. He dcesn't think there will be enough stacking space between the new intersection of Dodd and Diamond Path and County Road 42. He also said the existing storm water ponds the city has on 160th Street are an eyesore, and he doesn't believe the pond proposed in this project will be an amenity to the neighborhood. Marie Schaedler, also of the Everleigh townhome neighborhood, expressed concern over any commercial at the corner. She said it is only one mile to the east to commercial users in Rosemount, one mile to the north to commercial users at 140th Street and Pilot Knob, and only two miles to commercial uses west in Apple Valley's central business district. She said that allowing more commercial space will just put small merchants out of business. She also said high density townhomes can be equated with low income residents, which she objected to. There being no further discussion, Chair Felkner noted this item would appear on the next Planning Commission agenda. He then called for a recess at 9:55 p.m. The meeting was reconvened at 10:15 p.m. B. Amendment to Conditional Use Permit for CAMAS Rick Kelley explained that this proposal is to allow extended. hours of operation for the CAMAS sand and gmuel »»ill a operations on the east side of the city. CAMAS currerly leases properly located on the north side of 160th Street between Pilot Knob Road and the east city border adjacent to Rosemount. Current hours of operation by ordinance are 6:30 a.m. until 5:30 p.m., Monday through Friday. The proposed revised hours would be 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Monday through Friday, and 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturdays. At the public hearing held two weeks ago concem was expressed over the validity of the noise readings taken by a consultant to CAMAS. Consequently, the city of Apple Valley has had some additional readings taken, which do confinr~ those taken previously. Kelley noted that even if the city allows extended hours of operation, the PCA noise regulations would continue to apply. There may be some instances where particular activities would need to be constrained in order for CAMAS to meet the most restrictive hour of operation, which is that from 6:00 to 7:00 a.m. when nighttime noise standazds continue to apply. Bob Biemugel of CAMAS stated that they are in fact the new kid on the block, having recently acquired the mining rights to this property late last fall. He said they would be willing to consent to an extension of their hours of operation simply through the end of 1997 in order for the city to completely evaluate how good a neighbor they azea. He said they have already had several neighborhood meetings with the Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 12 adjacent residents, that they continue to try to keep lines of communication open in order to address concerns of the neighbors that go even beyond city regulations. Felkner asked if a limited approval such as this would be appropriate. Kelley stated that it was his understanding that conditional use permit approvals must be related to specific perfom~ance standards rather than expiration dates. City Attorney Mike Dougherty stated that in this particular case a limited time period would be warranted. MOTION: Edgeton moved, seconded by Nagler, to recommend approval of the extended hours of operation for the rest of calendar year 1997. Motion carried 7-0. C. Site Plan/Building Permit Authorization for Animal Emergency Care Facility Assistant Planner Tom Lovelace presented this proposal which was initially reviewed at the May 7th meeting. He stated at that time the Commission was comfortable with the proposed building, but was concerned that specific information on the building finish and color had not been prepared for presentation to them. They consequently tabled the item to this evening. Lovelace then presented an overhead transparency that indicated location generally on the southeast comer of Pennock Avenue and 146th Sffeet West. The building would be constructed of a combination of face brick and dryvit material. The brick would continue azoand all sides of the building at the window ledge level. Also, based on discussion at the last meeting, they have flip-flopped location of the pazking azea so they could constmct a trash enclosure on the very north end of the building with access for gazbage collection vehicles. The heating, ventilation and cooling equipment would be located on the ground in the very from of the building and would be screened with some low landscape plantings. Jack Shaw of Swedenborg Shaw Constmction displayed a series of samples of building materials which illustrated their texhue and color. MOTION: Edgeton moved, seconded by Nagler, to recommend approval of the site plan and building pernut authorization, subject to the recording of the final plat. Motion carried 7-0. D. Valley Way Village Blanket Setbacks Kathy Bodmer presented the issue, which concerns the townhomes located along the east side of Pilot Knob Road just north of County Road 42. Bodmer noted that the recent heightened awareness in the Building Inspection Departrnent concerning additions to townhome and other multi-family units resulted in the forwazding of a building permit request to the Planning Departrneut. This building permit was to change an existing elevated deck facing Pdot Knob Road into afour-season porch. The townhomes along Pilot Knob Road are subject to a 50-foot road setback, but decks that do not have roofs or other enclosures aze allowed to be buih at a 40-foot setback. All of the townhomes along Pilot Knob are built right at the minim„m setback, and all of them have decks. In reviewing the request it was noted that a change from a deck into afour-season porch would not meet the 50-foot setback for an occupied space, and would therefore either have to be denied or receive variance approval. In reviewing other records, however, it was noted that four other decks had previously been changed into porches without receiving variances. Staff believes that given this existing condition, the most appropriate Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 13 thing for the city to do would be to approve a bku~ket setback variance to allow all decks adjacern to Pilot Knob Road to be converted to porches at the time the owners might choose, as long as they meet the 40-foot setback. Coirarussioner McNamara asked if Pilot Knob was a city or a county road. Kelley stated it was a county road. McNamara asked if the road would be widened in the future. Kelley stated that Pilot Knob is currerly a two-lane rural section, and at some point in the future it would be widened to become afour-owe divided highway. Kelley went onto state, however, that because there is an existing cemetery on the south side of County Road 42 on the east side of Pdot Knob Road, widening of Pilot Knob Road here will have to occur all to the west. Consequernly, even after the widening, the closest that a travel lane would be to any of these townhomes is the same as it is now. MOTION: McNamara moved, seconded by Edgeton, to recommend approval of the proposed setback variance due to the hazdship created by lack of proper city oversight. Motion carried 7-0. 7. DISCUSSION ITEMS A. Sketch Plan for Regatta Tom Lovelace presented this proposed development located on the north side of Courtly Road 46 just east of the future Flagstaff aligmnent. The property is currently designated on the city's comprehensive plan for low density residential of 3-6 units/acre, but is currently zoned agricuhural. Denny Griswold and Mazk Guenher of Puke Homes approached the podium. Griswold stated that they appreciated the opportunity to talk to the Planning Commission prior to submission of a formal development proposal. He said this 100-acre site is large enough for them to create a complete "lifestyle" wmmunity with a variety of distinct housing products. He said they have attempted to take irrto account the major collector roads in the azea, which would be Flagstaff Avenue on the west and 157th Street essentially through the middle of the properly. He said they have also attempted to accommodate the existing nahual water course in the northeastern portion of the site by establishing a small pazk area there. He understands the city is contemplating a lineaz park artangemem. This linear park would include a walkway that would hopefully follow the water course along its entire length. Griswold stated they will propose a planned unit development in order to take advantage of clustering several different types of uses within the overall maximum density allowable. Guenher then displayed some renderings of the types of housing products they are proposing. He started by discussing the traditional single family housing units for which they did not bane renderings, but where they irrtend to offer about six different plans. These all would be two-story units between 1,650 and 2300 s.f. and base sales price of 149 to $166,000. Their experience has indicated that this housing product typically generates about one-quarter child per dwelling unit. The ne7ct series of housing products' renderings were displayed to the Commission. The single family attached product (duplex) would have between 1,000 and 1,600 s.f. of azea and a base price of from 98 to $118,000. The club home is a row townhome product all constnrcted on one level. Three different floor plans would be available, ranging from 1,168 to 1,472 s.f. in azea. Two different building elevations aze being provided for the clubhomes to provide some additional variation in appearance. These would sell from a base price of 103 to $120,000. The last housing product would be the courthomes which Guenther indicated is their fourth genemtion design for this type of housing product. By way of comparison, the wurthomes constructed in the Mistwood development in Apple Valley represented their second generation design. They now have two different building elevations to vary the Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 14 appearance of the units and three different floor plans. These aze back-to-back loaded townhome%ondominium units that would have between 1,091 and 1,320 s.f. of floor azea. These would have a base price of from 81 to $97,000. The sketch plan indicated a total of 191 dwelling units on the site at a density of 4.8 dwelling units/acre. This is within the comprehensive plan designation of 3-6 dwelling units/acre. Griswold indicated they have tried to put the most dense housing adjacent to County Road 46 and then transition to the lower densities as one progresses northward. He indicated that because staff made them aware that the vacant undeveloped property to the north is the current site of a sand and gravel operation, and that it will eventually be either light industrial or moderate density multi-family, they have increased their densities slightly on that side, indicating their duplex units there. He said their focus of coming before the Commission this evening is to receive input on their proposal prior to them getting into the detail design phases. Commissioner Edgeton asked how faz the north boundary of this project is from 153rd Street. Kelley stated that when 153rd Street to extended easterly, it would be about cone-eighth mile sepazation between it and this project. He stated that area on the north of this property is designated for a combination of medium density residerfial from 6-12 units/acre and light industrial. Edgeton stated the Apple Valley Economic Growth Partnership Committee has been looking at the need for more light industrial land for the community, and that the azea south of County Road 42 is one of those tazgeted areas. She said that this plan does not appear to conflict with any changes in that area since 153rd Street is expected to be the boundary between those more intensive uses and the multi-family uses fiuther to the south. Griswold again emphasized they are showing duplex units on that north boundary that would abut the future medium density multi-farnily. Commissioner Blundetto asked about the elevation for the clubhome townhomes. He said it seems like the front elevation is all garage doors. Griswold referred to the elevation and indicated there aze four dwelling units in each building. There would be two two-cat garages on each side and then a wurtyazd in the center. Commissioner Cowling stated she would like to see a clubhome elevation that did not have so much garage door exposure. A general discussion ensued. Griswold referred to the elevations of the proposed duplex units. These would be twinhome lots on a total 100 foot wide pazcel set slightly off center. This would allow one unit to have aside-loaded garage so the door would not have to face the public street. Griswold said he would see if they could modify some of the clubhome arraugemeuts to include some side loaded garages. He said they cannot commit they will definitely be able to do it, but they will certainly evaluate it. He noted they have hied to lay out the units so they do not have to have direct driveway access onto the majority of the public streets from the multi-unit buildings. Edgeton asked about the courthome azea, and how many units aze proposed there. Griswold stated there would be 31 buildings with a total of 248 dwelling units (8 per building). Edgeton stated that azea seems to appeaz quite dense, and the buildings and housing units seem to be lined up in a barracks appearance. She asked if that could be modified to improve the appearance. Griswold noted that the view from the main public streets that pass by this area aze looking at the sides of the units, and that they would not appear to be all Planning Commission Minutes May 21,1997 Page 15 garages. Edgeton stated the city has tried hazd to establish chazacter for every neighborhood and would like to seethe same here. Conunissioner Oberg asked if there would be an association established in this area. Griswold stated there would be an association. Oberg asked what the street widths would be. Griswold stated all of the public streets would be built to normal city standards, and that the private streets would be constructed 28 feet width back to back. Gowling asked how the arrangements in the new neighborhood would access the proposed park along the water course. Griswold stated it is not very clear on the drawing, but that in the very center of the lots backing up to the water course azea there would be an opening. It actually looks like its drawn as a single family lot, but it is in fact part of the pazk extending at the T intersection. Blundetto asked how many different housing types are being proposed here. Griswold stated there aze four distinct housing types. Blundetto said he would like to see a breakdown of density for each of those types. Edgeton asked if the proposed single family area would be on standard sized lots, or if the developer was asking for smaller lots. Griswold stated that bath the single family and duplex units would be constructed on normal city standard lot sizes. Commissioner McNamaza asked the time frarue for development. Griswold stated they would expect after approvals aze received this year, they would do grading in the fall and some model home construction. McNamara. said he's have some concern over whether or not potential buyers would be appropriately informed of fixture light industrial, moderate density multi-family and sand and gravel mining uses adjacenrt to this property. Commissioner Nagler asked where access to County Road 46 would be provided. It was noted that access must meet the county street spacing guidelines and the existing curb cuts which would have been established here. Phase I development would take access with a single street at Finch Avenue, and Phase II would require the installation of Flagstaff Avenue on the west. The developer will take these comments into account in preparing their formal development application at some future meeting. B. Sketch Plan for CarX Kathy Bodmer irmoduced the item which is for a possible variance to the city standazd of no more than two bay doors in retail business zones for auto service and accessory installation. Commissioner Edgeton stepped down from the dais at this thee, indicating that she owns the adjacent property. Bodmer stated this vacant lot is located on the southwest comer of 147th Street and Glenda Drive, having at one three held an Amoco gas station. The properly is designated on the city's comprehensive plan for retail business use and is wnsisterrtly caned retail business. The cuxrexrt standards in the city's zoning ordinance for retail business indicate that no more than two bay doors may be constructed for facilities for minor auto repair or auto accessory installation. CarX would like to put a facility on the site which would Planning Commission Minutes May 21, 1997 Page 16 have seven bay doors along its west face and use landscaping to try to shield the appearance of the bay doors from 147th Street. Bodmer noted that it was important to remember the twodoor standard has been applied to other auto service and accessory installation competitors located within the retail business zone, and they have met all the requirements. Doug Sailor of Midwest Management stated his firm had recently been hired by CarX, which he was representing. He said in his opinion the design being presented meets the spirit of the ordinance by attempting to screen the doors from view from any passing traffic on 147th Street. He asked for input from the Commission. Chair Fellmer stated that, speaking for himself, he wants to see the twodoor design utilized here. He asked stafffor a clarification on the twodoor limitation. Kelley noted that the retail business zone was intended for primarily just that, retail business activities. The general business zone is the one in which most car service facilities were intended to be located, and those performance standards simply allow adequate screening for bay doors without setting a limitation. The two- door limitation was established in the retail business zone to accommodate auto service operators who warrt to try to take advantage of the greater visibility and customer traffic that occur in the retail business zones. Commissioner Nagler asked what the hardship would be in this case. She did not see one. Sailor stated one of the reasons they were comi a before the Commission on a sketch basis was their attempt to try to interpret the code. He said they thought the ordinance was unclear, and that a minor repair facility was not necessarily required to be limited to two doors. He cited Section (c)(6) which call out "motor firel stations and minor auto repair facilities" without any limitation on the number of bay doors. Kelley stated this part of the code refers to motor fuel stations which contain auto repair facilities within them; a minor auto repair facility cannot exist under this ckmse by itself unless it is associated with a motor fuel station. The general consensus of the Commission was that they would be much more fivorable to approving a conditional use permit for CarX if they come up with a design that meets the twodoor requirement. It was noted that in the packet a sample site plan was provided from a previously proposed auto service use on this site, which was designed to meet the twodoor requirement. 8. OTHER BUSINESS -None - 9. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: McNamara moved, seconded by Nagler, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carved 6-0. Meeting adjourned at 11:29 p.m.