HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/03/2011
CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
November 3, 2011
Minutes of the November 3, 2011 Apple Valley Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee.
PRESENT: Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee Chair Russ DeFauw; Committee Members,
Darrell Retka, Brenton Schulz, Lee Strom, Patrick Sullivan, and Katherine Wright; Parks and
Recreation Director Randy Johnson; Valleywood Manager Jim Zinck; Park Maintenance
Superintendent Tom Adamini; Recreation Superintendent Scott Breuer; Department Assistant Dorene
Perkins Monn; Natural Resources Manager Jeff Kehrer; Building Official Greg Brady; Police
Sergeant Mark Demming; Traditions Development Representative Jacob Fick; Minnesota
Department of Natural Resources Representative Jim Levitt; City Councilman John Bergman; and 15
members of the public.
ABSENT: Cindy Hart
ITEM 1.
Committee Chair DeFauw called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
ITEM 2.
Approval of Agenda
MOTION: by Patrick Sullivan, seconded by Brenton Schulz to approve the agenda
as presented.
VOTE: Yes – 6, No – 0
ITEM 3.
Audience – 10 Minutes Total Time Limit – For Items Not on the Agenda
No one spoke.
ITEM 4.
Approval of the Minutes for September 2011.
MOTION: by Darrell Retka, seconded by Patrick Sullivan to approve the
September 1, 2011 meeting minutes as presented.
VOTE: Yes – 6, No – 0
ITEM 5.A.
Agenda Items – Introduction of New Youth Representative – Katherine Wright
Katherine Wright (Kate) is a student of Apple Valley High School and the School of
Environmental Studies. She is a member of the Honor Society, captain of the swim team, and
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November 3, 2011
a lifeguard at the Water Park of America. She was appointed August 11, 2011 by City
Council as Youth Representative of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee.
ITEM 5.B.
Agenda Items – Cobblestone Lake - DNR Fishing Pier and Existing Pier Repair
Director Johnson presented: As discussed at the September meeting, the City is considering
going into a joint powers agreement with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) on a
Fishing-in-the-Neighborhood program that would entail constructing a fishing dock on
Cobblestone Lake. Direction from the Committee was to notify the neighbors within 350 ft. of
the lake. Staff did a mailing and worked with the homeowners association to get it in their
newsletter. Traditions Development also helped promote the information. Staff received a
number of responses. Included in the letter sent to residents regarding Cobblestone Lake DNR
fishing pier was information regarding the needed repair of the exiting pier.
An aerial photo of the lake and an example of a typical dock were presented. Staff noted that
most of the development has occurred on the east side of the lake. The City continues to work
with Traditions Development to acquire parcels on the west and south side of the lake to continue
the park construction and finishing amenities at Cobblestone Lake.
A couple of items mentioned in the comment emails were the amount of parking around the lake
and vandalism. There are 225 parking spaces that surround the lake in what is called bump-out
parking.
Public comment during the meeting:
Joe Deufel, 15633 Cobblestone Lake Parkway, President of the Egret Lodge Homeowners
Association – read the letter sent to the Director of Parks and Recreation. The fishing dock is
considered to be a luxury addition at this point. He stated the homeowners association is very
supportive of the needed repairs on the existing pier, but not supportive of the covered structure
removal. Concerns include location of the dock and safety issues for residents and their property.
Brian Boehne, 15565 Eagles Nest Way – very much against removing the covered pier. Read his
letter addressed to Director Johnson. He asked the Committee to please consider other options
such as signs, overhangs, nets, etc., so they can keep the covered pier.
Craig Carrison, 15765 Cobblestone Lake Parkway – There was a fishing pier built by Traditions
Development on the lake several years ago, but it was removed because it was not structurally
sound. He noted the depth of the lake goes up and down by about five feet and a fishing pier
would either be landlocked at times or would need to be quite a bit longer than twenty feet.
John Varpness, 15851 Cobblestone Lake Parkway – Two concerns, location of the new fishing
pier and safety issues of the exiting pier. He requested additional information for clarification on
what the plans are and the safety issues of the existing pier. He noted there are over 200 bump-
out spaces but asked the Committee to keep in mind what access those spaces provide. Most of
them are not in close proximity to the lake and would require people to either walk through yards
or a fair distance to the lake. He questioned what the appearance of the fishing pier is going to be
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if the level of the lake drops. Traditions Development initial irrigation plans were dropped
because of the lake levels. Lake levels are an issue.
Bob Ronning, 15650 Duck Crossing Way – opposed to any construction of any new structure of
this type. Suggested giving the existing pier to the DNR, allowing them to fix it up, and they’ll
have their fishing dock with no expense to the community of Apple Valley. Can’t imagine a 40
acre lake supporting two fishing structures.
Cindy Falkowski, 15841 Eastbend Way - spokesperson of Cobblestone South Shore Association
– Letter sent to Director Johnson. Parking is a question. Was not told where the dock would be
located, assuming the fishing dock will be located by the clock tower or in front of her home by
the common walkway that comes from Eastbend Way. Eastbend is a narrow street and she can’t
imagine people will park on the other side of the lake in the bump-outs and walk around the lake.
Has called more than once when kids have climbed on the gazebo and jumped off. Need to police
that a little more so kids don’t abuse it. Noted that the website shows the gazebo and believes it is
a huge selling point for the area. To let something that’s gone into disarray just go by the
wayside, take down the gazebo and make just the pier, and then put in another dock on that small
body of water doesn’t make sense.
Dirk Marshell, 15637 Cobblestone Lake Parkway – It appears the lake is like a wetland and in
theory you’ll take away part of the wetland to provide access to another fishing dock. Therefore,
it will impact the migrating birds that land on the lake and also eat the fish from the lake. He
asked if there had been an environmental review of the property to see what the impact of the
additional traffic will do to the lake, the wildlife, and the surrounding wetlands.
Lynn Hanson, 15642 Egret Place – His backyard goes out to the lake. Questioned the new dock,
with the water levels as they are now, it will have to be close to a forty foot walkway out to the
little twenty foot square fishing spot. Can’t understand why you’d put in a new dock and not take
care of the one we have. If the maintenance would have been done like it should have over the
period of time, it would be fine. It’s just fallen apart in the last year, year and a half. The
location should be the number one thing brought up at the meeting. You tell us you want to do
something but you don’t know where you’re going to put it, doesn’t help the residents very much
as far as getting the questions in a proper way we’d like to get them out there, and then we could
look at the parking issues and all the other things. A quick letter is not enough.
Alan Kohls, 15634 Early Bird Circle - Past President of Legacy North Shores homeowners
association and a member of the garden club that maintains the park on the lake. One of the
neighbors made a suggestion to combine the two and adapt it to both situations. It’s a beautiful
focal point in our community in a way we’d like to keep it as such.
Chair DeFauw explained that as we go forward you have the opportunity to speak at any time, it
is a dialogue. This is a process, that’s why we’re here and that’s why you (residents) are here.
Have heard that people feel they haven’t gotten enough information yet, but this is a process
developing to see if it’s feasible. This is a very normal procedure; notification, public input, and
the Committee listens.
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Chair DeFauw stated that he’s not here to bash Traditions Development. They are a developer to
make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that. The three committee members that have been
involved since the start of Cobblestone Lake Park foresaw potential for difficulty because clearly
the lake is a focal point and a value-added benefit for Traditions Development. He wasn’t always
sure, in the sales presentation, that they weren’t giving people the subtle idea that the lake was
going to be a private only lake. Financially, they are required to dedicate either land or money in
lieu of land as a developer in the City of Apple Valley. What they dedicated was the lake front to
be a public park. Under a joint development agreement, which we insisted on because the lake
does create value for Traditions, essentially Traditions is going to pay, when it’s all said and done
$900,000 and the City will pay $900,000. This is going to be a $1.8 million park, but it is a
public park owned by the entire City of Apple Valley. There may have been some expectations
that this is a private residents-only park. While functionally it’s likely going to be that most of
the time, it is a public park as part of the Apple Valley system. We were concerned with the
difference in perception and reality of what this park is or isn’t going to be.
Director Johnson stated there is no proposed location because staff wanted to get input. The
Committee talked about it at the September meeting. The dock could go in a number of places.
The first fishing structure was on the east end of the lake and constructed by Traditions
Development. It didn’t work for a variety of reasons. It was not a City project.
The pier that goes out into the lake was also constructed by Traditions Development. The safety
issues have nothing to do with kids jumping off the roof, they are because of the freeze/thaw
cycle each winter and summer, and the actual piers themselves are moving. The City Building
Official and a certified professional engineer inspected the structure. What’s happened over the
decade since it was built is it’s become unsafe. That’s the reason for removing the roof. The pier
was not built for ease of fishing, you can walk out on it, enjoy the lake. It’s a long drop for
fishing.
Chair DeFauw noted this (pier) was constructed as a marketing tool. The engineering study
clearly shows that it wasn’t built to last. It was built to look good during a showing sales period
that in obviously extending longer than then anticipated. It’s the foundation that is unsound; it’s
not that kids jump off the roof.
Director Johnson said, in terms of locating the fishing dock, staff has looked at the southwest area
somewhere close to the future access to the park. He presented a drawing done in conjunction
with Cobblestone in 2007. There are 225 parking spaces around the lake. As the west end
develops, there will be an additional parking lot for about 15 to 20 cars on the south side and a
larger lot on the west end for about forty cars.
Currently, the City does not own this property. Staff is working with Traditions Development to
acquire that property and construct it. This is a unique park, it is a joint project. Normally
developers do not do that with the City. Traditions Development has been a very good supporter
of this park, matching not only with land, but also with money so the City has been able to
upgrade and make this a much nicer park than could have been done alone. Because of the
economy, things have been sitting for a while, but it looks like they are now starting to move
again.
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In terms of the fishing dock, the southwest end is one place talked about. Staff is open to
comments, or putting it back where it was in the east end of the lake.
Director Johnson reported positive comments received included a recommendation for a kayak
launch area, and another one of the associations said it was a good plan and they supported it.
Chair DeFauw commented Traditions Development has been good to work with, the City has had
a good partnership, but you do have structural difference when you have a private for profit and a
publicly elected tax supported entity. There are sometimes some differences in priorities that they
have to work through.
A member of the public questioned the construction process and how the pier was built without
planning commission approval and inspections. Randy Johnson answered that when it was built,
Traditions Development and McNamara owned the entire area. Chair DeFauw noted that at that
time the pier wouldn’t have had to go through the planning commission process because it was
entirely on private property. Building Official Brady noted they didn’t apply for permits and it
built without permits. The structural engineering report states the structure is failing.
Lynn Hanson asked what year the Parks and Recreation Department took over the structure and
does the City have a list of maintenance they’ve done on the pier since then. Director Johnson
responded that is was about 2005. Mr. Hanson stated all the problems started this spring when
the cross pieces were popped loose and not a one was repaired. That’s why those piers started
shifting and moving. That goes back to the people here that say they want to get rid of it, should
have been the ones at the very beginning saying it should have been done right.
Tom Adamini commented this year was probably the worst that it’s moved, but it’s been moving
for many years, the ice has kicked out the cross braces. Park Maintenance has an annual
inspection done by the building official. Plans are to wait until the ice freezes to allow access for
the proper bracing to connect the rails to the actual platform and put the cross braces on the piers.
Joe Duefel asked for clarification. In the letter it sounded like the City was taking the top off.
Has there been a change and the City will now take out the entire pier? Director Johnson stated
the City is taking the roof off the gazebo.
An audience member asked if that was due to the weight. Director Johnson answered that it is
due to the structure moving; it’s not safe. Building Official Brady stated the roof doesn’t have a
continuous load path down to the piling, some of the beams weren’t sized properly, and now the
roof is starting to lean and fail. There are several deficiencies is the reason it has to come down.
A member of the public commented that a covered pier is liked by people and he asked if there’s
a way to have a covered pier elsewhere on the lake or something like that. Is that a possibility to
make the other dock covered? If some of this information was given out to us prior to tonight,
some of us wouldn’t be here.
Jacob Fick of Traditions Development addressed the meeting. When Traditions built the lake, the
first and foremost issue wrestled with was the water level. The water elevation is supposed to be
around 912. It typically has been around 908 or lower. The pumping station was installed in
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2003ish to provide for storm water irrigation around the lake. The lake elevation goes up with the
rain and down with the drought. This year the water was high and Traditions Development
pumped to parks, medians, and some associations throughout Cobblestone Lake Parkways. For
the amount of water being taken out of this lake, it’s a drop in the bucket in comparison to all the
water that comes in. This is a low point in the city, a regional lake and a regional basin in the
city, called a pond. As part of the storm water system, it’s the low end of the system. There is a
lift station in the south end of the lake that hasn’t been used in a number of years except to
exercise the pumps. At the end of the day, this is where the water sits because there is a big clay
seam between this and the next pond on the other side of the new athletic fields. This is where all
the water drains before it heads south into Lakeville. Traditions Development does pump out of
it, but it’s pretty minimal when you consider how much water is there. Traditions Development
pumped water out when the water level was high in July, but then there were several very dry
months.
Mr. Fick stated that Traditions has a gigantic interest in this. The map shows a lot of vacant land
and they want to make sure this lake does as well as it can. A few years ago, Traditions
Development got a permit from the City and dug the west end of the lake out so there wouldn’t be
so much sand area out into the middle of the lake. Mr. Fick presented a history and Traditions’
intent regarding the lake and surrounding area. They are limited to about a 910 water level
elevation.
Joe Duefel asked what the timetable for finishing the park is. Jacob Fick responded that
Traditions are going before the City Council on a parcel in the south central area for 11 lots and in
conjunction with that they’re looking at finishing off the southern park entrance area. They are
working with staff on the western area. They’re hoping to finish the parks alongside the
development because it makes it fit better.
DNR representative Jim Levitt with DNR Fisheries, In-Your-Neighborhood Fishing Program
presented. The program is an urban fishing program that works on smaller lakes, ponds and is
geared toward fishing and families.
The DNR 2005-2006 fish survey of Cobblestone Lake didn’t show much of a fish population,
mainly bullheads and green sunfish and not any real game fish, so the DNR started stocking it in
2006. It has been stocked with walleye. The existing pier is not highly conducive for fishing.
It’s designed more as an amenity. The proposed dock would be a floating dock with lower
railings. It’s proposed with a 20’ walkway out to an octagonal fishing area. Generally, the DNR
looks for six feet of water. The location of a dock is flexible.
Environmentally, Cobblestone Lake was a gravel pit, not a protected waterway. Committee
member Retka asked, in the south corner approximately 20 ft. off the shore, what is the depth? If
Apple Valley has a fishing platform on this lake, how many visits would it see?
Mr. Levitt responded that typically, a fishing pier will increase fishing traffic to a lake. However,
he does not believe adding a fishing pier at Cobblestone Lake will add more angling pressure
because there is already a pier with access, and it’s known as a fishing lake. The proposed dock
has a lower railing. The goal with the Fishing-in-the-Neighborhood program is targeting the
surrounding community within approximately one mile.
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Public Comment: Is there a way to add to the beginning of the pier a canoe/kayak launching?
Mr. Adamini pointed out that when the pier was originally built by Traditions Development, there
was a set of stairs that went down to a floating platform, but it was later removed.
Natural Resources Manager Kehrer commented from his perspective, most of our (Apple
Valley’s) lakes have bullheads and/or goldfish. It’s just the nature of urban ponds. If you don’t
have some kind of predator, generally water quality suffers. Think it’s important in Cobblestone
Lake to have a balanced fish population. It’s 22 ft. deep that doesn’t winter kill.
Chair DeFauw noted there were public concerns about public safety, vandalism, graffiti and asked
for a police department comment.
Sergeant Mark Demming reported the list of all calls to the Cobblestone Lake neighborhood
starting January 1, 2011 through October 14, 2011 totaled 58, everything from dog barking to a
traffic stop in the neighborhood. He broke the report down farther to what happened in the
park/open spaces and that narrowed it down to 24 calls. 7 of those were vandalisms and 7 were
public mischief/nuisance calls.
Director Johnson has received a commitment offer from the Apple Valley Rotary Club to pay for
lumber costs up to $4,000 to partner with the DNR and Parks and Recreation. They ask that a
plaque in commemoration of a deceased member of the Rotary, Richard Asleson who was a
strong supporter of fishing, be installed in the area of the dock.
Chair DeFauw read and heard a concern that expanded fishing will draw fishermen from outside
of Apple Valley. DNR Representative Levitt commented that the people would be coming here
for shore fishing or canoe fishing, not larger boat fishing. A lot of the fishing is family groups.
The City is going to brace the existing pier and extend the life of the pier, but continue to inspect
it. There may be a point in the future where bracing won’t keep it safe. Park Maintenance will
follow the recommendations of the structural engineer. Building Official Brady explained the
problems with the structure and how the Maintenance Department is planning to stabilize the pier
and remove the roof.
Comments from the Committee:
Committee member Retka stated he likes the idea of a fishing pier that would accommodate
public neighborhood fishing. He recommended locating it in the southwest corner where it’s
fairly undeveloped. The only thing he’d hesitant about is parking and a reasonable spot would be
the small little parking lot on the south side. As for the existing pier, the City has to make it safe
and put some effort into making it look reasonable. He’s all for supporting fishing, would like to
see something on the undeveloped side, and maybe some additional parking.
Committee member Strom said having families come there and fish will probably deter others
from coming there to vandalize.
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Committee member Schulz agreed that having the fishing dock in the south will keep some of the
fishing out of the existing residential area.
Chair DeFauw thanked everyone for their intelligent, well thought out, and courteously stated
questions and comments. He suggested that Director Johnson provide a second information
release with a proposed location for the pier, some kind of a parking and traffic plan, and the
Committee revisit this issue at the January meeting. He asked that the information include details
on what the safety issues are and why it’s necessary to take the top off the pier.
Building Official Brady invited members of the public to visit the Inspections Department to view
the structural engineer’s report. Jacob Fick offered Traditions Development web site for
information distribution purposes.
Committee member Strom noted there are two issues; 1) the fishing dock, and 2) existing pier
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structure. He expressed concern about waiting until after January 5 to start on the existing pier
repair, but Natural Resources Manager Kehrer assured him that it may be January before the ice is
thick enough on the lake to walk on.
ITEM 5.C.
Agenda Items – Valleywood Clubhouse Project Update
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Director Johnson updated the Committee. The first bid package was opened October 6 and a bid
tab was included in the agenda packet. So far the project is approximately $50,000 under budget
projections. The lot has been cleared and work will be starting soon.
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Authorization was received at a special City Council meeting November 1 to proceed with the
second bid package, which includes the remainder of the construction trades. That bid date is
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December 1.
ITEM 6.A.
Other – On Line Registration Update
Recreation Superintendent Scott Breuer presented. ActiveNet program was launched in mid-
August and all Parks & Recreation programs have been put into the on line program. Response
from the public has been overwhelmingly positive. Approximately 1,000 customers registered
already.
ITEM 6.B.
Other – Next Meeting Date – January 5, 2012
Next Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee meeting is scheduled for Thursday, January 5,
2012.
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PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
November 3, 2011
ITEM 7.
Adjourn
There being no further business, the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee meeting was
adjourned.
MOTION: by Darrell Retka, seconded by Katherine Write to adjourn the meeting
at 8:46 p.m.
VOTE: Yes – 6, No – 0
Respectfully Submitted,
Dorene Perkins Monn, Dept. Assistant
Approved by the Apple Valley Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee on
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