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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/03/1981 • � CITY OF APPLE Vt�I,LEY r�RK COI�IIIIvIITTEE MINUTES NOVEMBER 3 , 1981 �'RESrNT: Naegeli, Gutenkauf, Milos , Dahlen. State Representative Carolyn Rodriguez (Ex Officio) , and 5taff Member John Gretz . ABS�.NT: Sterling, Langager, Miller. 1 . Ca.11 to Order. Vice-Chairman Naegeli called meeting to order at '�:00 p.m. 2 . Ap�roval of Minutes . Nr. Dahlen stated a correction should be made in the motion on the first page in the third line to read "to purchase the" instead of the word "purchases" . ZNith that correction noted the minutes were approved. Ms . Milos reported the Park Committee Members had looked at these conerete structures on October 21 , made their decision to select three, and they were installed on Friday, October 23 . She reported the children were out in the afternoon on Friday and they just loved them. Mr. Naegeli sta�ted these were poured concrete in different shapes -they had purchased from North Star Concrete for $40 each, delievered. He stated they had put them in Farquar Park becau�e of a rock prablem in two spots . 3 . Discuss plaV structure in Cha,parral Park; complaint by l�zke Lysne, 132 Chaparral Drive . Mr. Naegeli reported that construction was going very well on the newer parks , and they were now set to move into the older parks, and that everything was pretty much completed except Chaparrel . He stated there were interested parties present who came to dis- cuss this park and give their point of view. �ie said they had started construction in the lower portion, and have been grading up on the hill , adding that the lower construction was for big swings . Mike Lysne, 132 Chaparral Drive, stated he was obviously new to the area or he would probably have known that they planned to put a tot lot on that particular piece of ground. He said when he had voiced his concern about a tot lo-t he was told he sho�.ld have asked before he moved in. He stated he never would have thought anything could be put on that small a piece of ground, and that close to the street. He said it was a bad site , that it was too close to the street, and in fact so eZose that it could be danger- ous for the children. He stated cars go by 30 miles an hour or faster. He added that Mr. Berg, and Mrs . Engelhart >�ere alsa �resent, and that they were the only residents that faced the area. He stated none of their homeshave children, Secondly, he said, fram their noint of view it would probably be successful in draw- Park Committee Mi tes November 3 , 1981 � . Page 2 ing children from all over the neighboring areas . He stated he had walked it off from the front of his house to the grassed area on the othe r side of the street and it was 75 feet which was just as close to the Berg's home, and slightly further from �ngelhart's . He stated he realized this decision was made a long time ago � and a lot of thought had gone into it, but he didn' t think it made it a better lot. He said in his inquiry about this, this site was selected so it would be possible to supervise the children. He asked who would, naming i�r� , " Engelhart, whom he said d�dn't want the lot either, or others . He said that maybe same of the mothers whose children were playing there would supervise, but asked why not �pu t it at the end of the paved path, where it would be at least 200 feet from the street. He said the tot lot was very attractive, but he thought what was there now was a lot more attractive . He said he was asking them to move the tot lot up to the end of the tarred path, because it meant a tremendous amount to them not to have the tot lot there. He stated it would be just as useable, and they were reluctant to supervise the children. He said the lot was probably going to bring a number of cars parked in front of his house, and that he didn't park his ear in front of the Committee's house . He added that he didn't see any parking lot. He said he was start- ing to sound sarcastic, and that he didn't have the power to make them do anything, but the decision to move it up to the end of that path was a relatively easy decision to make . He state� they could achieve their goal without putting this in- cred�b�� burden on them. He stated he didn't hate children, but as citizens and taxpayers he thought the�r rights had to be considered to� . He said this would ruin the enjoyment of their homes . He added he thought parks were great, but asked that they not put it 75 feet from his front door. He said it was unnecessary because they have an alternative site th�� was just as good, and if they used a portion of the hill they would still have enough room and the children could be effectively su�ervised. He st�ted he had a lot sunk into his house, and the Berg's and Engelhart"s do too . He stated he didn' t ask when he bought, though he should have asked the seller, but it was a narro�� area between the swamp and the street and it never occurred to him. He stated it had occurred to Mr. Berg who was li�d to by the real estate .people by saying it would stay just the way it was . He said he had had other people mention to him that it �as a bad site for a tot lot, including the workmen who had stated they agreed and suggested he go down ta City Hall . Mr. Gretz stated that after �Zr. Lysne had told him he had received this response from a City Employse he had gone out there but was unable to find out who had said it. Mr. Lysne stated they were begging the Committee not to do this, that it meant a lot to them. He said it reduced the value of their property, their enjo�men�, and asked to what advantage . Nr. Naegeli asked if the traffic it would generate particularly bothere�, him. �ir. iynse stated he personally didn' t think the little area was suitable park land for any purpose, and that it should be left a wild area. He said at least 20 homes face on the whole area, and he thought they appreciated that wild, un- developed area too . �'ark Committee lViinutes November 3, 1981• � Page 3 Mr. Zowell Berg, 130 Chaparral , stated traffic came around the bend �retty fast, and with two or three cars meeting there - with cars parked along the curb it was going to be a hazard. Mr. Lynse stated he would rather have the cars their without the equipment and the children. Mr. Scott Fraser, 134� Chaparral . stated it was their understanding this meeting was a move to not have a tot lot at all . He said he would like very much to have a tot lot, and if it cauld be moved to the other end of the blacktop he felt it was a very good compromise . He stated he didn't think there was going to be traffic because he felt it would be a walk-to park. He said if toddlers were allowed to go off to a park, then he couldn't worry about their children. Ms . Gutenkauf stated they wanted to kesp the graded area for kicking type ball, and that this was the only flat graded area in Palimino . �Zr. Fraser asked if there was not room for both the tot lot and the ball playing area. Ms . Gutenkauf stated there was not . i�r. Lynse stated the graded area was at least five times larger, and they could use 1/5th of it for the tot lot. Mr. Naegeli stated they were very familar with Chaparral Park, that it had probably been visited the most. He said they had the original _design for what they had planned there, but that they coul.dn't afford it . Mr. Fraser said he wondered how much the flat area would be used, and he felt that it was the tot lot that would be used. One lady in the audience stated that the area was mostly pre- adolescents . She said someone planted trees on the only flat spot they had to play, so the children had continued to play there . 1�1r. i�ark Gjerde, 102 Chaparrel �ourt, stated he had been a resi- dent for nine years . He stated the park land was set aside 10 years ago , and they have been five years getting improvements in the ��rk. He said one of the reasons it had been delayed was because of the freeway construction, or he thought it would have been done sooner. He stated he wanted to compliment -t�em on �heir s�lecta.�on and placement of the equipment. He added that the Committee's work was not done without citizen input; that anytime they have looked for input they have gotten it. 1�2r. Fraser stated there was 100 children i.n the �'alimino-Hidden Neadow area, who have been waiting for that park �to be developed for a long time. He said he was not only speaking for himself but for the majority of the neighborhood, and he urged the continued development of the park according to what the plans �r�ere . In reiterating that he was speaking for hims�alf and others, he presented a petition to the Committee containing the names of 80 neighbor� .in favor of the installation. .As far as place- ?ark Committee �inutes November 3 , 1g81 � � �age � ment of the equipment, he said he thought the Park Comrnit�ee had someexpertise whether to bury it ar have it out where it',s visable . Ms . Rodriguez stated she had walked up to the park last weekend to see it and had walked back to the graded area. She said it was really much better than what was there, but she found it small and in knowing the activities chi_ldren get involved in the tot 1ot would curtail the play activites the older kids could indulge in. She said she felt they needed to separate the foot- ball , baseball or whatever from the smaller children, and not restrict that one o�en area. Mr. Lynse stated when the equipment goes in they will have to live with it from dawn until dusk . He said the Commit�ee or their children might use it a couple hours a week, but they didn' t have to look at it or deal with the traffic and the child- ren. He said it was very easy to say he�e's a list of 80 people who are in favor of it . He stated the site isn't large enaugh for all the uses they wanted so they were going to put in on the street. He said they couldn't deny that there was no one in this room who would want that park �S feet from their front door . Mr. Dahlen stated he was in the same situation of Mr. Lynse, and if one walked from his house to the park it was approximately the same distance he is talking about. He said one of the reasons he would prefer not to see the equipment up by the path was that that there would be tiny children there from dawn until dusk with nobody around. He said the area is very secluded and there are a few �roverted people and it would not be very safe . Mr. Fraser stated that if there couldn't be a compromise then he �ould like to see it where it was planned. He stated he didn't buy the �raverted people talk, and if the children are so tiny they could injury themselves on it then they should be on it at all. �e said it should be up to adults to keep one eye on the park, and he didn't feel it was his responsibility. P�arilyn xfdahl , 118 Hidden ��eadow Road, stated park was to meet the needs of the general public , and not three people across the street. She added that the flat area would meet the children's needs around Chaparral , that it is the only area that is avail- able, and they were forming a park �n that basis . She stated sh� was sorry I�r. Lynse hadn't asked the right question when he bought his ho'me, but it had sold three times before and it �Tould again because it ��as a lovely home with a lovely view. �s . �Tilos stated there was one thing they have always had to keep in mind and that was that the parks do not belong to individuals , they are neighborhood parks . She said the ball area and something for the younger children was something the people have asked for for years . She said the Committee doesn' t totally use their own judgement on what would fit where, but get advice �f those w�th expertise, and this was the way they were advised . Mr. Berg stated he didn't want them to think they were deathly against children, because they had raised five of their ow�n, but Park Committee T�inu-tes November 3 , 1981� � �`'age � they have had problems in the last 72 years with teenagers . He said they couldn't listen to TV or on the telephone so they had called the police to get them out of there . He stated at one time they h ad ripped up the grassed area so bad you wouldn"t know there had been grass there . He said the problem was solved, but it was very irritating and very aggravating, and since that time they have had a number of thing happen around their home . He stated his concern was for the little kids on that corner, and he would rather have them in the backyard �f they were his . He said they �r�ill run in the street and someone was going to �et killed. Mrs . James Engelhart, 128 Cha�arrel, stated if this lot was going to go that close to the street she would not want her children to play there . l��r. Berg stated that the traffic does move through there . �+�r. r'raser asked if traffic bumps could be put in on Chaparrel , since the only ones using them v�rould be the people living there . He said they cauld be placed where the turn starts and where it ends . IvTr. Berg stated he would go aiong with that. Nir. Fraser asked if they could consider using shrubbery to break the Iine of site of the tot lot. �ir. Berg agreed this would be fine . Mr. Gretz sta-�ed he felt low shrubbery which would still allour visability over the top tirou].d be very possible and practical . As far as speed bumps , he said the City has some extremely bad liability in terms of automobiles being damaged. He said if someone goes over one and their front in goes out they immediately sue who ever ?ut them in. He said they have to protect the ma- jority of the City, and they would have to pay to defencl themselves even lf the person doesn't collect. r�1r. ��raser asked about "alow, chidren playing signs" , or a stop sign. Mr. Gretz stated stop signs have to meet the S�a�e of P�innesota control warrants and that s�top signs s�ecifically are not to be installed for other reasons . He said the rumble strip is intended as a warning devise that a stop sign is coming up, and any other use would be confusing to motorists . He said if s�eeding is going on it would be u� to them to call the police and the City will try to ste� up the contro]. . Mr. Fraser stated that a lot of the speeding was the residents themselves . He went on to say that if shrubbery was a �ossibility he would hope they would consider it. i�:r. Gretz re�lied that it was up to the Park Committee . Ms . Rodriguez asked about the possibility of a fence with some plantings in strategic places . I��r. Lynse stated this was an emotional issue for them. Mr. Naegeli stated it wasn't really an emotional issue for the Committee . He said they have tried to look a-� the whole of Apple Valley. He said he didn't live right next door to a park, but he got the problem of the park across the street. He said he had a gentle- man voicing some concern about a �ieee of equipment they had put Park Committee l��' utes November 3 , 1981� � Page 6 in. He said he didn't understand that we weren' t finished and there would be breaker shrubbery going in. He said after he had expl.ained to the gentleman he said it wasn' t as bad as he had thought, and maybe it could be in the case too. He said in this case it really wouldn't have matter if it w�as U�0 feet from the curb because it still would generate traffic be- cause it is the only park around, He said i-� was going to generate traffic , and the Committee knew that. He said when the developer had to donate park �and they took some i� Alimagnet so they don't have much park in :.7alimino . Mr. Lynse responded that that was a mistake of the �lanning Commissi.on, and asked when they should be punished for the errors of the past. Mr. Fraser stated when he bought he had been told about the park, but not about the freeway. He said the realtor did them a clis- service but it wasn't the Gity's fault. Nir, Lynse stated he was not against -the park, that he was only present to argue that the play equipment was in the wrong place; that it srras so close that it wcauld materially affect the quality of his life �,nd that of his neighbars . He said he didn' t think it was unreasonable to feel the way he did because there is an alternative . He said maybe it wasn' t big enough for both ball and the tot lot, but the Committee was saying they want two things so they are going to force them in. Mr. Fraser stated if a concern w�.s safety they should consider putting it :.where little children would be away from the water, v��hieh wou?dn' t be a cancern if they put it up on the hill . He suggested that perha:�s -they should look at the space again. Mr. Naegeli stated that once thsy had a thought of taking the top of the hill right off and level the v�ahole front so there �a�ould nat be any trees and they would have a bigger �lay area, but they didn't do it because it would cost too much. He stated in �979 when the �ark Bond Issue was passed they had �resented to the voters their whale plan and the cost estimates . He said these �nlans v�rere not inflexible and that the concrete would have been ooured tv��o weeks aga had not the com?�laint come in. He said sometimes the people come and say they are coneerned when they are almost done . IV�r. Fraser again mentioned the water. I;'Is . Gutenkauf stated that i-� wauld not be any closer to the `vater here than it would be up on the path. I�Ir. Naegeli thanked them all for coming and stated their comments would be taken under advisement. ���r. Lynse thanked Nr. Gretz and the �ommittee for allov�ring them to come . � � Park Committee Minutes November 3, 1981 Page 7 4. Further Review of Park Construction Program Mr. Gretz reported the modular rocks were in at Tintah, Delany, Farquhar and Hagemeister. Activity Center 4 - all are in. Activity Center 3 - One at Newell is in. Swing bridge construction - four are in. Duchess and Faith Park would be done next week. He stated Mr. Wahl had asked him to bring up the activity center for Greening Park. His concerns are that there isn't room enough, and there is too much equipment in there already, Mr. Naegeli questioned how they had made a mistake there. He stated they would hold on this for the present, and possibly they could shift this piece to someplace else. Mr. Gretz reported on a complaint from Mr. Jewitt. Mr. Jewitt stated the construction crew had been working out there for three days pouring the concrete. He was concerned they had f inished it and he called Mr. Gretz because it was right next to his house. Mr. Naegeli stated he had gone out and it was already in and very nice, with 8 or 9 children already on it and others ready to get on. He said there was no window on that side of the gentleman's house but the house is a little close. He stated they ha.d informed him it wasn't completed. He is asking for protective shrubbery. Mr. Gretz stated the Forester and Mr. Wahl were going over and inform him as to what is going to be put in. Mr. Gretz reported that Mr. Asleson was completing a report which will show I, where we are spending the Park Bond Issue money. Mr. Gretz stated he thought ', Tom Wahl and the park installation crew should be commended for what they j have done. '� Ms. Gutenka:uf asked what should be done about Chaparral Park. Mr. Naegeli �I stated unless there was a motion to change, the original plan still stands. Ms. Milos stated that Chaparral Park had more consideration in planning than any park they have done. Mr. Naegeli stated the next meeting would be November 17. Meeting adjourned at 8:12 p.m.