HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/17/1978 ♦
• •
. CITY OF APPLE VALLEY
PARK COMMITTEE MINUTES
MAY 17, 1978
• PRESENT: Roger Wangen, Joe Bell , Mike DesParte, Bob Naegeli , Mike Bassett, Councilmember
Savanick.
ABSENT: Ellen Milos, Ginny Sterling & Dave Miller
The informal discussion commenced with a question from Bob Naegeli concerning the number
of homes in Apple Valley and the number of families in V.A.A. -- there are approximately
5,000 homes in AV and 1,700 families that are participating in the VAA program. Bassett
asked about registration information for the past five years in the VAA program. Such
information would help determine the number of families that VAA has increased and
gene�al participation by sport and age. If we have a young group that are playing soccer
and that is increasing, that might be something we should look at as far as facilities
that are being planned. Where are the trends? We need to chart the trends for the next
ten years.
Dale Lyon reported that Lloyd Rivers has all the information on past registrations. He
also stated that they need to determine if they are going to have two seasons of soccer,
or have only once per year.
Bell questioned limiting the age groups. He recommended not having the soccer program go
all the way to kindergarten. Mr. Lyon stated that he feels that kindergarten is too
young. He feels that once a season is enough for any sport. They are running into a
space problem and they need to consider limiting their ages. Bell stated that in the long
� term goals, if he were on the board, one would be to work with the programs that the City
offers and not try to comp�te with them. Both VAA and the City offer programs in the
summer. He would like to see them complement one another and supplement and not t�y to
compete at all . He also feels that they should not start in the VAA programs until the
children are in the third grade or nine years old. People are going to complain, however,
after awhile people will adjust to the change. DesParte recommended that the people that
are opposed to the change in age limit, etc. should come before the Park Committee and
start talking to them about parks and the need for additional space and then they will
know that they have to support our program. He feels that is one way that the Park
Committee and the VAA should and can work together. The Park Committee is not in a position
and it should not be their position to limit VAA said Bell . The Committee can limit in
terms of space, but they have to set their goals. DesParte stated that the Committee
is in a partnership with the VAA as well as any other group in the City that wants to get
involved in using the Parks. He feels that it is part of the Committee's job in reflecting
the needs and trying to understand their demands as they are trying to understand the
burden that they put on the City as well . He doesn't think that the partnership can be
separated. Naegeli stated that the Park Committee doesn't want to be in a position to
have to limit VAA membership, they prefer to work together and get the best util.ization
out of the parks.
Savanick questioned if the City says they have to limit their programs, will the VAA say
only the best kids get to play and have tryouts. Mr. Lyon said No, that VAA doesn't
do that. Naegeli pointed out that the only way the City could make them limit their
program is by limiting the use of the parks. Savanick questioned using Alimagnet Park
fields located in Burnsville -- Mr. Lyon stated that they are being used now. Mr. Bassett
stated that the Burnsville Park Director has told him that they have some real space
• problems, too.
Mr. Bassett again suggested that they define what the trend looks like as far as future VAA
participaq�s then the City can plan. When they plan neighborhood parks there are certain
components that are put in them such as the typical ballfield & tennis court. If we see
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' that the trend is more toward soccer facilities then we can probably try to take those things
into account. He reviewed the facility standards.
• DesParte questioned how long the VAA had been serving the community. Mr. Lyon stated he
thought since T962. Bassett stated that the VAA overall is fiscally on very good ground
and the problem we seem to have is that we have alot of kids that want to participate.
This is a positive type of problem to which a solution should be found.
Discussion was on where we will be ten years into the future.
Naegeli stated that there are more school activities provided for the students -- and if
there would be more of an expansion of the school activities it could affect the enroll-
ment in the VAA activities. Mr. Lyon pointed out that they don't compete with the schools
at all . If they offer it at a particular time, the VAA doesn't.
Bell questioned the long-term VAA goals. Mr. Lyon stated that they don't have those kinds
of long term goals; they want to offer what the people want.
Chairman Wangen arrived and officially called the meeting to order. Roger introduced
the members of the VAA - Dale Lyon, Bill Edwards and Ed Sowder -- as well as Park
Committee members, staff and Councilmember Savanick.
Wangen suggested a basic program in which the Park Committee would work with the VAA and
they in turn would work with the Park Committee in an effort to provide a good program
through proper planning down the road 5 or 10 years. The Park facility needs for the
City must be assessed and one of the biggest impacts on park facilities is through the
VAA. He noted that the largest organization to date in the Community is VAA and it will
• also probably be the largest organization in the future. The future needs of the VAA are
important to the Park Corr�nnittee, but also to the Council and all members of the Community
for the growth that we are facing. The meeting tonight is to identify the needs of the
VAA for 5-10 yrs. in the future. The Park Committee would like to know what kind:--of
plans they have for the future with the present park system. Are they interested in see-
ing more facilities available to them. What are your projections down the road -- if you
increase your program can you handle them with the facilities that are now available?
Mr. Lyon stated that soccer has really changed their program and they don't know what
it is going to do. Population projections were discussed. The population at the present
time is about 18,000 with about 5,000 families -- there are about 1,700 families active
in VAA. In 1983 the population will be about 30,000 -- about 7,000 families -- there
could be about 3,000 families in VAA. There was considerable discussion of families
living in Valley Park & Burnsville that are in VAA programs. Naegeli suggested that the
VAA might consider limiting programs to Apple Valley residents. Bell said that Apple
Valley Parks are being used by residents of Lakeville, Rosemount & Burnsville.
DesParte stated that they would like to have figures with number of participants in the
different programs. Then base projeetions on the number of students in a particular
activity to determine the need for facilities. Once that occurs then we can talk more
intelligently on what the VAA needs most.
Savanick sugges�ed blending the programs together rather than eliminating the kids from the
outlying areas. She suggested going to Lakeville and saying that they need more use of
their parks for programs.
Naegeli questioned when they start limiting their numbers where are they going to draw
• the line? Wangen pointed out that it is important to the VAA to know where they are going.
It is essential for any organization to know where they are going and to know where
they are now. It is imperative that you know how many kids from Apple Valley are involved
in your program.
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� DesParte noted the need for the facts and fi�ures to pass a Bond Issue in the City. The
VAA goal is to provide sports in all areas within the City to whoever want it -- our goal
� should be to provide the facilities for the activities to whoever wants them. If you
provide the activity for the individual he must realize that he has to support that activity
financially by contributing to the City by voting for a referendum.
Wangen stated that the Park Committee has had a difficult time selling a bond issue becuase
it is a unit of volunteer people that are trying to plan for the future and it is difficult
to sell the issue to each and every group that they talk to -- they are not the ones that
use the park facilities -- the VAA are the people that use the facilities.
Savanick pointed out that the VAA needs to talk to the people in their organization and tell
them what the needs are for facilities and let t6em know that they need to support the Bond
Issue. She suggested that the VAA develop some special structure within their organization
to work with population projections, etc. because it is not one of their usual tools.
The VAA representatives stated that at this point they are not prepared to discuss the
projections. Bill Edwards said they are dropping more of Rosemount and the tendency seems
to be more toward Apple Valley. He feels that the participants are more than 80� from
AV. Bill Edwards also suggested that there should be someone on the ]�AA board as a liason
to the Park Committee. He likes the idea of planning. Joe Bell also suggested that one
of the Park Committee members should go to some of the Board Meetings. He also asked what
the feelings of the VAA Board would be -- what would they feel the way of limiting would be.
DesParte suggested that a rough outline proposal should be presented to the VAA Board
identifying specifically what the Park Committee feels that they need to provide them with--
then let the VAA Board talk over what we have asked for -- then meet again. He suggested
. such questions as how does the VAA fit into the overall growth and projection of the park
system. He asked if the Committee felt that this is a reasonable approach?
Naegeli pointed out that there are about 80% of the families in Apple Valley that do not
belong to VAA -- they are the largest group that participates in organizaed athletics---
WAngen asked if they had a proposal as to what their anticipated needs are -- what kinds
of limitations they are thinking about, etc. Look at the positive side. There was
considerable discussion regarding what the needs are, etc.
DesParte suggested that an overall program plan be established. What we are going to try
to do over a certain period of time. Maybe the first part is to agree on what the VAA
goals are and what the Park Committee goals are and how they fit together. Then attach
each objecti-ve that we are trying to work at -- the expansion of parks for baseball ,
expansion of parks to meet the needs for soccer, etc. Then try to look at what we can
realistically achieve in a certain period of time based on growth projections, etc. Design
a program and work with that program. Then that program can be presented to the City Council .
Wangen stated that he would like to expand on that -- in ten years the VAA could have 3,000
families participating in their program. How many football fields are they going to need
for 3,000 families? These are the types of questions he would like the VAA to consider.
Then expanding on that -- Plan B -- what can we do for 2,000 families with football ,
soccer, baseball , etc. Maybe Valley Park will have to be eliminated. Maybe the number
of teams will have to be limited. What are you going to do if you only have 1,700 families
involved in 10 years? It is not just one program, you have to have alternatives.
Bob Naegeli suggested that they create some kind of a subcommittee from their Board to look
• at the situation. They know the how the Park Committee feels about the situation and they
know their thoughts. This would give them a couple of months before they come back to the
Park Committee.
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. Wangen feels that the lon� we wait the longer everyone i�oing to �vait to achieve any
goals. Wangen questioned when the first taxes would be paid on a bond issue if it were
passed in the Spring of 1979. Bassett stated that the bonds would probably be sold
� later in 1979 and theoretically I believe they should be on the statements for taxes in
1980. He pointed out the problems.
VA�# stated that they can project their potential growth and if the facilities are not
available they will just have to cut the program off. It is just that simple.
DesParte pointed out how the VAA could make projections and adjust them over the years.
He suggested that they plan for the maximum -- the population atsaturation. He recommended
taking such things into account as the change in the age of the families, etc. He feels
that it would be better if the two groups work together on developing this typ� of projection.
Bell suggested beginning work on their goals at their June Board Meeting. The Park
Committee could attend their meeting. Bassett stated that he would send copies of the notes
from this meeting to all of the Board members, along with a cover letter. This would give
them some background. He suggested that the Committee discuss some of the goals that the
Park Committee might want. to look at -- additional athletic facilities is an obvious one.
Naegeli noted that if they expand and we don't have the facilities -- that is immaterial .
When we plan this bond issue we want some kind of projections from them so we know if we
need another forty acres for another athletic complex. That is what it comes down to.
Bassett noted that the development of an Athletic Complex could run in the neighborhood
of $300,000. We have to pin down how many ballfields we want -- or do we start working
on soccer fields? Lyons stated that lights could help alot. During the summer it would
help alot. Soccer and baseball could both be run later in the evening. DesParte stated
that if the fields are lighted then the adults like to take them over. Bassett stated
there are also problems at Westview that we should look at in the long term. Maybe our
existing facilities can be better designed and we can make better use of them.
� Savanick noted that the problems with the use of neighborhood parks is the cars and park-
�ng in front of peoples homes. The parks were designed for neighborhood usage.
Mike DesParte stated that he interprets the VAA Goal as being able to provide sports in
the areas where people want them. Some of the objectives were as mentioned -- baseball
softball , soccer, and those areas. Lyon stated that it is not necessarily limited to
those sports -- if someone would "want boxing and would want to set it up, the VAA
would stand behind them and help in whatever way they could trying to provide the
facilities and the room to do it.
Savanick asked if the VAA is still interested in storage -- that is an old problem.
Dale Lyon stated that they are using Winkler's Bldg. right now; they could be asked to
move anytime. They are storing about $100,000 worth of equipment right now.
Wangen stated that he hopes the VAA understands that the Park Committee is concerned about
their needs for the future. They have asked for projections and goals and if storage is
something they would like to have, the Park Committee will work with them. The Committee
can't help the VAA unless they first help themselves to help the Park Corr�nittee. If you
would like to have a representative of the Park Committee or all of the Committee attend
one of your Board Meetings then we can talk about projections and population, number of
facilities, storage areas as a possib�i�y for something -- there are alot of possibilities.
Have this available at your meeting- -- ask the Committee for things that you want to have.
These things can be put on a bond referendum. They may not all be ab1=e to be included but
at least they would have ideas of what the VAA needs are. The final analysis is -- if you
want this for these kinds of goals and the Park Committee agrees with a certain number of
� these needs and puts them in the Bond Issue -- then the passage of the bond issue still
rests with you. The people who vote are the people who want to have those programs expanded.
You have to have a corr�nnunication system -- send a letter stating th�t this year we have
this many kids in the track program; next year we will have the same number because we
have no more room for track. The same thing with baseball -- we have this many kids this
year and next year the number will remain the same.unless facilities are provided thru
some other means than a bond issue.
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- Naegeli stated that it so�s like maybe the Park Committe�s pushing for the Bond Issue.
� The Park Committee can do what they did this year -- this is what you have to live with
the next five years -- it doesn't make that much difference to the Committee. The Committee
� does not want to pressure the VAA into passing a bond issue, butthe plans would work into
what is projected and what is offered in the next bond issue. The VAA is going to have
to live with the present facilities for the next couple years as it is. He doesn't want
them to get the impression that they are being pressured to pass a bond issue. A bond issue
has to be put together anyway -- regardless if they include athletic facilities. They are
soliciting support for the things that they want to be included in the bond issue in the
area of athletics -- not for support for passing the bond issue.
Wangen stated that if the VAA comes up with some goals for X amount of people and it is
included in the bond issue and there is no impetus by anyone to pass it -- then there is
only one conclusion that the Park Committee can make -- the people don't want athletic
facilities and the next bond issue would not include them. If it fails twice that will
prove the citizens are not interested in it.
Dale Lyon stated that the last couple years is the first that they have had space problems.
Soccer has really expanded and the need for facilities is there. He feels that the VAA
will stand behind the Park Committee.
The last bond issue that lost by 158 votes was discussed.
A representative of the VAA stated that it should be pointed out �� the VAA Board that
there is "X" number of dollars allocated for this type of a project with the VAA projections
for specific athletic facijities. If you mention athletics then he feels they will get
the backing of the Board.
� Wangen stated that there are a number of reasons why the Park Committee feels a bond issue
is important to the City. Ne reviewed the nine points �hat were sent to the City Council .
There are alot of reasons for passing the bond issue. If the Park Committee has convinced
the VAA represe��atives at the meeting tonight and the other members of the Board do not
agree -- then the seed hasn't been planted. He hope that they have done that tonight.
The Park Committee is really depending on the VAA an awful lot.
Bell sug�ested that if they go to the meeting the lst Wednesday in June. He suggested
that the Park Committee look at their goals. The VAA Board will meet at 7:00 p.m. on
June 7, 1978 -- they can put the discussion at the beginning of the meeting.
Bell further suggested that the VAA answer the question -- "What facilities are you using
today with the population that we now have -- what will you need with a certain X population."
What facilities would you need with 2,000 members or 4,000 members, etc. What do you think
you would need in terms of facilities? Then �hese ideas can be discussed at that meeting.
The Park Committee might say it is too much; they might agree; these things can be discussed
at the VAA Board Meeting.
Dale Lyon said they can give them a good idea what they are using today -- it would be a
guess for the future.
Naegeli stated that he would like to see what kind of support the Board and members of the
VAA are going to have for athletic facilities. If there is not enough support there --
rather thanjeopardize a future bond issue, we will have to eliminate some of the athletic
things to get people to back the rest of the items. If the Park Committee goes for
$200,000 or $300,000 worth of athletic facilities it will have to be justified by some
� kind of support and backing.
DesParte asked Mr. Bassett to prepare a brief outline for the program p�an so we don't
get lost. Wangen asked for further questions. Wangen then noted that the Park Committee
is interested in providing a good overall program for the City and the VAA is a large
user of the facilities. Meeting adjourned.