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06/03/1982 s � �ITY OF APPLE VA.I�II�Y URBAN AFFAIRS COMMZT�'EE MINUTES Jun� 3, 1982 Pt�ESENT: Gloria l3eter$� Shirley Doerin�� John NLcKay, F'red A2etry, Sharon Schwart�, City Admin3strator Richard �.sleson, City Planner �?�.ck Kelley, Gity Cc�u�tcil �Iembers ��.ann.e Kelly aa�d Marlis �ver�arel, eigh�een members o#' the p�blic� represer�tati�res af Knu.tsc�n Rubb�.sh� Tawn and �ountry Dispc�sal, and Bloomin�tnn �a.nitation, and Fournier Rubbish Removal . �BSE�ITs Chairman Hank �yers. The meetin� was called ta order at 7:35 by John McKay� Mt�TIt3N: by Mr� Metry, seconded by Ms. �eters to apprave the m�.n.u�es of the May 24�, 1�$� meeti.n�. Vote: Yes - 6; No - �. HE.AR��IG C?1V CUR�-SIDE CQNTAINER REFUS� PICK-TJP: 1. The Histc�ry of Refuse Callection in Apple Val1.��__Mr. �slesons Tn 196�� arganizecl gavernment proh:vbited refuse fr4m bei.n� but at curbsa,de fQr collec�a.on. The expers�ment was undertaken for p3.acin� �arba�e at curbside ix2 answer to periadic requesi� frc�rn licensed collectars to a11.ow curbsa.de collect�.on« The h�ulers wish ta k�ep costs doarn and fee3, curbside pickup is more efficient in terms of human labar, fuel, etc. �urbside h�z� bee� �� proha.bited beeause c�f the effect allowing �arba�e at curbside may have on the �eneral appearanee csf the City. The green cans and the �techanical lif� devi�e� ran th� �arba�e trucke that a11ow every ean to be lifted ��.d dumped wcauld be the equipmente�ed. if curbside were allowec3. The question becomes: snouia �he City a�1�aw curbside refuse gickup and under what condition�4 2. Pr�sentation of Results of Recent Survey' Conducted by the Members of th�e Urban �.ffairs Comrnittee--Mr. Kelley. Mr. K�lley summari�ed the results of a tel�phone survey canducted by Member� Qf the Urban Affairs Committee at their May 6 rneeting--these ca3.ls were �ade to 3� persons who had the green con�ain�rs and �a who did nQt participate in the experiment. �eventy per cent of the people who were us�.x�� the eontain�r� would like �o see the syst�m used city wide as opposed ta three per e�nt who would nQt and tw�nty-s�ven per ',cent �ho responsded "maybe.'� �3ne hundred per cent o�' the participants did not have any do�/cat or vandalism problems wi�th the cantainer. For ea.�h,ty-three per cent di the participants, �he eontain�rs w�re 1ar�e enough; ott speeial oecasions (holidays, sprin�/f�11 eleanup, etc.), more space is needed. ' Peaple who had the gr�en containers felt �h� appearanee of th� neighborhoad ! imprc�ved; tho�e who dad not use them did not fee1, the appearance improv�d. ' Results of the telephone survey indicated tha� those wha were involved. an the experiment likgd usa.n� the gr�en containers; those who were not did nc�t like the �reen cantainers/refuse at curbsa.de. s s tTRBAN AFFAIRS C�MMITTEE M�NUTES June 3, 1982 Fa�e 2 3. Stat�men�t Cancerning the F1.acement o#' Materials tha� wi11 not Fit intc� the Green Cantainers--Mr. Asl�sc+n. Accc�rdin� to the experimental �arba�e pick-up cardinance� excess �nateraals were suppo��d ta be 1.eft in front of the �arage ar�d nat next to the �ree�. cantainers at �urbsid�. Collecto�s w�re suppc�sed to issue a tag when e�ecess rnaterials were I.eft at curbside �whieh the�r did). Zn many instax�ces, cnntainers vuere probably nat pacl�ed to capaci�y. What �o do with the excess mat�rials remaa.ns an +�pen 3.ssue. . 4. �ta�ement on Cc�l�.ection Procedures via a �istrict Goneep�--Mr. �slesr�n. �f the �reen cr�ntainers were ta become a perm��.ent eanditian� there wa3.1 nc�t be green cantainers on �he curbs in � �iv�n nei�hbc�rhac�d �very day of the week; there would be zanin� or a distr3.c� ��r�tem implemented. �'urther, �,f �thiz� �ree enterpra.ce concept is pur�ued, the orda.nance written �ould no� require the use 4f the �reen conta�.ners--if th� �re�n cdntainers ar� such a wonderful wa� for cc��.lecting �arbage, it ccruld reach the �oint whea�e all the l�.cen�ed collector� wou].d aff�r green can�ainer ser�ra,ce. �. Testimony frarn General Fublic. *Te�, ��3ephane ca1Zs were receiv�d a� City Hal1 from peaple �ha co�.ld not be presen� for the hearin� expressin� their ��.ppc�r� for keepin.� �he gr�en ec�ntainers, Those pre�e�t �rho ��sta�ied were. Lynn� Kline, 13�51 Galway Court--spoke a�ains� the �reen ca�s. (She did anat participate.) �he has seen them blc�wn nver and ��.s seen extra trash next to them. Sne does no� understand what people will do with th�ir �xtra �arbag�. ���.n�.ey E�doruk, �t4�►35 �arrett--spoke in favQr of �he grcen ccantainers* {Iie u�ed the container and liked the r�sult�). He conduct�d a survey Qf 14 pec►p�.e in hi� ne�.ghborhhdod--13 were in �'avar,� 1 was non cam�ni.tal. �e�theti- ca11.�3 he felt the green ec►ntaa.ners were 'iQt?� better than �a�ba�� cans, If it is packed correetly, he i� abie ta �et a13 caf his fama.ly's garba�e in and al.sa his newspa�ers. He felt the co�.tainers were m�ch safer--th� top ea� be secur�ly fastened and it is stable. Robert Keetonr 14�4$ Garrett Ave.--spoke in favor o� the e��taine�s. (He participated a.n the experiment.) He is ve� much in support o�` the �ystem. He is abl� ta �et fnur ardinary si�e garba�e cans fu].1 €�f refuse in his container�. He wau�d not 13ke to resort back �o usa.r�� d�.fferent syles n�' cans. It �.s �conamically in his favdr to use th�: green container. It is easier to mc�ve dawn ta the curb �han movin� faur �arba�e eans out of his �ara�e. He find� starage of the �reen eontaaner is easier {takes less room) than four cans. Ke rea.terated his being very much in support bf K�utsr�n�s �reen containers, Bil1 �unckel,, 143C?8 Glad�,c�la--spoke �.n £avor of the green ecant�iner�s. �he partici�ated in the experiment.) Iie indicatecl that he felt hauler� wanted cur'bside pickup� Ke has a broken driveway as a result of da�age caused iay a garbage �ruek backing up to hi� gara�e. The �reen containers are definitely visib�.e €�n �ue�da�s; but if there ss gain� to be curbside pickuPw then usin� green containers xs the answer. As far as the prs�'blem af the r i IIRBAN AFFA�.R� GfJMA�ITTEE MTNIITES «Tune 3, '1982 Page 3 addit�.o�a]. trash� th�.,a wauld be a ma�t�r o£ �ducatin� the publ�.c in hc�w tc� eorrectl�► pack it. Tlurin� the summer m�an�h�, he �.ndica�ed thst he puts his add�.tianal trash in bc��ec tha� can all be hauled a.�ay. He said �hat if the Caty wished to ha.ve curbside pi.ck up� he advoca�e� usin� the green containers. �h.iring the wanter, they are 1.ar�e enougkr; in the s�mmer� any �dd.itional trash cauld be placed �.n plast�.c ba�s. It is important ta let the people k�aow what is expeeted of them. Educate the publi.c so they wi].1 know what �a da with the extra garba�e. �haron LaComb, 13$64 Glada,ala Ct.--sp4ke against uss%r�� th�± �reer� containers. (She did not partieipate in �he experiment.} She indica�ed thsre had been probl.ems wi�h' excessive amc�unts placed on �op and next tQ the �reen cans. Thexe are probl.ems with dags which are a1lo�ed to run 3.aose. Cln Gladao�a, cans have b�en ta.pped c�ver» �rarba�e ha� been left in the �tree� aft�r the haulsrs have 1e�t. Her mai� c�ancern �.� wi�h the garba�e tha� remains crn public s�reets. She has ca3.l,ed �he pnl3.ee department cancerning the problems with dogs, but l�y the time they arrave� the doga are �ane. Sh� da�s not feel poep�.e rrere tieketed whc� were putting extra garba�e out. Cra�:g Kusick� Garrett--spake �.n favor af the �reen cantaa.ners. EH� participated in the exper�rae�t.) �ie was reluctant to par�ic�p�.�e �.n th�; expera�ent at �irs�; bu� raaw he wa� 1Qt�6 in fa^�or of u�ing the green cantainers. He has had no dog prablems (�rhach he had �x�eriences with, using re�ular garbage cans}. Cracks in th� driveway wi11. not increase or worsen �ince there wi�.i b� no heavy trucks coming up to the driveway, his ,�reen container is free of oe�c�rs� �he coz�taa.ner halds a lot of refuse, and it fits a.nto the �ara�e much easi.er--he w�� a.n total. support of us�.ng �he green cantainers. Mike Car�ier� Apple V'a31ey (who indicat�d he was nc�t �.n.vated--he did not par- ticipate in the ��perimer�t anar was he a residen� of the experimental. zone} said tha� he had �e�n an aarfu3, lat of �arba�e placed alon�side the green canta3ners. �ie i,s eaneern�d that the ordinance now an the baoks is n.pt �nforced. He asked what the be�efit would be �o the Gity to have "uniform ,�arba�e`?'r Mr. Aslescan replied tg h3.s camments by indicatin� that a.r�. th,e experimera�al d�.s� trict the la.censed et�llectors� picked up the materia�. at curbside and left a ta,g for the homeowner. �t wa� not an enforcement problem during the exp�riment. The c�rdinance wr�.tten for the experimenta�. perxod a,nd�.cated that the cc�llec�ors �HAT,Z piek up a11. mater3.a1 at curbside. �t as a matter c�f educatin� the publ.ic as �c� what sha11 be requirec3.. �tan�ey F�doruk--ind�.cated four of the la�censed, hauler�s wau3d back up inta dri.vewaysp one waul.d not. M�. Asl�son r�p�3.ed that �ro�n 1969 to the pre+�ent time� there is nothin$ written wa.thin �he refuse ordinance �ha.t prahibits haulers from backing 3nto dr�.veways« Ma�.y ju�t dr�ve down the streets and use scooters in �he driveways. An indivad- ua1. hamee�wner can te11 ha.s cnllectar to stay csut c+f ha.s driveway. Martha Gunckel, 14348 Gladxoia--spoke in favor af th� green cara�ainers� (�he has been particzpat�n� i�a the experiment.} Th� con�ainers that she h�s �cr�iced bein� blo�rn over have been ett�p�y and �ometin�es� the lids 'were left open. St shouid be required tha� if the �reen eontainers are used, persc�r�s shc�u�d be courteous enrsu�h ta c].ose the la.ds. Far the mo�t: �a�:rt, rhe felt the use of �reen eanta�.ners had been adeantageaus to her famil.�r. She feel.s tha� haulers • � URBAPfi AFFATRS COi�MITTEE MTNUTES �une 3, 'I9$2 Pa�e 4 shou3d be required ta take extra garbage i� pec�ple have it. An uniform pro- cedure shcru�.d be followed whether a family has a lot Qf r�fuse or na�. She r�ot�d that small things had blown out as �he cantainers were lifte�. into the trucl�. �he indicat�d that her hauler was B1oo�ni.n�tan �an�.tat�,an and that their ra�es h�d incr�ased. Mr. Asl.eson explained that �he ardinance wra.�t�n �or the experiment froze the rates a� the time Qf the experiment�s impl�menta�ion thrau�h June 1. The �a,ty has r�ev�r been into rate establashment exeept far �reezin� the rates durin� this experiment, The representa�ive from Bloomington Sanatatifln indicated that they had �ane ta a dxfferent billing prr�cess ax�,d h�:r bi11 was obviously in errar if there had been an increase. I?en�.s �,aC4mb, 13864 G1.ad�ola Court--spo�e a�ainst u�in� th� �reen cc�ntainer. �He did not participate in the experiment.) He did not care what kind of cans were p7.aced an the cur'b; he is not a,n favor Qf curbside pie�up. If cans tip aver as�d if excess �arbage as next to the �arba�e cansy th�.s ia no �olution. He �.� an favar c�f �ara�e pickup, not curbside. K�:n Kline� 13�51 Ga�,way Court--spoke against us�n� green con�ainers, (He did not participate a.n the experiment.� He sa�.d that it is impQrtant to think of how tp keep this cornmun�.ty a pleasant place �o live. The ori�i.na1. ordina.nce concerna.ng trash (na matter what type of container was/is used) has a I.an� traek record. He fe3t tha� if onec�mpromises to use green Containers� �here wi3,1 be a lo� af excess trash around them. Ther� is a ri�k of dawr�grading the appearance af the community. 6. Te�ti.mony� fram C'o1l.ectors: Gordon Faurnier, Fournier Rubbish Remo4al-_believes the �reen con�aine�s are �oc�d �a use. The �3(3 �allan contai.ner would hn2d mast of a persan's trash. He feels the extra allowed sl�c�uld be limited to �rard material.s. This i� a more efficient systemW-it lima.ts the number of' stops needed in a@ay. He limits the number of bags csf grass clippings he takes ta four bags; this seems to �rork we�.l as most peaple have four bags« Ms. TJeters asked if it would cause hardship to him af zoning �.s impased. He said that he coul.d autt�matically switch cus- tom�rs araund to accr�mmodate those who dc� hav� �he green contaaners and tho�se who do not. Mr. �,�1.e�on indicated th�t a11 refus� in green. containers wo�1d be picked uP; for example� on �uesday�. ColJ.ec�ors could pick up other refuse any day ca� the week. Larry �nutson, Knutstra Rubbish �ereice--sa�.d that there would be no extra charge to his custc�mers �.f the Gity will allow curbside. �f � per�on desires ta purchase the gr��n container outri�ht, there wi11 be a reduction of �'f.C?O to each mvnth 's b�.11. He will maintain the cart �c�r those vaho do ndt wi�h to purchase the�. Carbage is more secure in the �reen cantainer. He has nearly ��� �resn eantain�rs which are bein� used �.n other cities» Mr. Metry asked Mr. Knutson if he would be willin� ta sit dawn and work ou� f�].S'��'1G'�1I1�',. Mr. Knutson t�ould l.ike ta see the City try the K-car� s�rstem with.out district�.ng. He offered a 30 day free trial tt� �he citizens of Ea�an and Burnsville with less than 1� returning their K-cart (green container). Regarding extra garba�e� a 9� gallon container is now bein� manu��.ctured which. � � QRBAN AFFAIR� GpMNlI�TEE MINUTES JuMe 3, 1g82 Pa�e 5 is 1t}� lar�er and that will solve many af the problesns, 3?urin� s�rir�g cleanup anc�. at Ghristznas ar� the times when more �arba�e is generated. The customers shc�uld be educa�ed as to how they ean pack their �arba�e intd �h� con�ainers ec�rrec��»y. S'ome eustomers have eleeted to rent two af the cantain�r�. Mr. Knu���n`would 2ike to s�e plastic ba�s eontaina.n� �rass clippin�s allowed at curbsiae. Ef�icien�y o�' his operatic�r� will be pa�sed c�n ta hi,s eustomers ir� savin�s. Ms. �chwartz� asked i.f any communities prahibit th� colleetion of �ra�s cl.ippin�s. Mr. Knu�son replied. that at the pre�ent time there is �a��.k eox�eernin� banning.by the l��t. Cou�.cil but commun3,ties have not yet bee�, affected« �he �mnunt of r��'use he co�l�cts is �o3n� down; landfill spaee is dec2:�ning. I}urittg �h.e spring ancl summer ma�.th�y his aumping cos�s increase 1f3, Ir� reply ta �he question qf haW it ara.Il be �aecessary to separate �arba�e y P�r� Knut�on rep2i.ed �hat tYaose c���r�tions wi11 have to be subsidi,zed in some man�er. At this t�.me rec�rcling �.s not feasible economical.l:�. He does see a �QV'e more inta vol�nteer progxams for recyclin�. He could see the RDF (refuse der�ived fuel plan) as being an an.swer at some point in time„ �Is. D�ters ques�ioned Mr» Knutson as t� his intention of paeka.ng up e�cess garba�e a� the �ara�� once the experim�nt a.s over and if c�rbsid� is a1law�d. Mr. Knutson could nt�t aP�er the door type ���vice and K•-cart serviee also. Ca�cerning the extra �a�rbage araund the cart� Mr. Knutsan saa.d that he in�tructs his dri,vers to jud�e each customer individually--he a.nstills a,nta the drivers tc� take the extra. He u�ould like to see the 4rdinancc� wri�t€n tc� aZlc��v extx�a garbage around the �arts. Mr. As�esoz� cr�mmented that durin� �he experimen� �x�utson went tv the �arage and picked. up the extxa �arbage� but if the prdject is pursued usa.n� the �re�n container and if th� h€�meowner a.s tnld by ardinanee to leave garbage in front of the �arage� it wauld be a waste of �3me and e�ffort. If curb�s�.de �,s allowed� the �reen ec�ntai�.er would ��.ly be used. Ha� wa,1.]. curbsi�e be�zefit the citizens of A�rpZe Valle;�? Knutsc�n replied that econamically th� c3.ti�e�s wou].d be benefitecl� but prQbably curbs�.de is mQre advantageaus tc� �he haul.ers. If a persan buys th� cart, the price wnuld ga down; af nat� the price wauld sta�r the sam�. CQUncil Member Kell�r�_indicated the residents around her and �hef herse�.fy like the �reen cantaa.ne�s. A.s costs go up for the hauler� especial�ly in our present ecanQmic situatic�n' their price wuuld have to go up. Eeanomical3y she fe1.t it �.s much more a� a benefit for her to use the K-cart. Mr. I�nutson said that the aver�ge hameowner spend� about �44.t�� per year for pla�tic baga and for newfreplacing gar'bage cans. He is not forein� this an the pe4ple« He lia� had calls fram Qver 1�� p�op7.e in Apple Valley who want the carts to use+ They recea.ved 1� cal.ls from people who have them and lr,ve them! feel they are fanta�tie� wath no negative comrnents.. Peop7.e are usu�lly �keptaca7. about �hem until they have tried them. ��anl�y Fedorulls„ indicated that he had checked the costs of faur hau2ers and that Kn��svn is right in the m�.ddle--very competa.tive price wase. Ken K1.a.ne asked Mr. Knutson how he felt about uszng �reen carts but keeping them at t&e garage. Mr. Knu���an replied that there as a big differenc� in �ffa,cien�y. Mul�ipl�ang the tirne it would take to walk up and down by the numb�r af households wo�z3d amc�unt tc► an extra $ hnurs of work per week--an expensiye item �rhen payin� an employee and operating cc���s of a truck. � • U1�B�N �.FE.AIRS C4MMI�TEE MIAT�TTE�i �'une 3, 1g82 Page 6 �'im Thvmpsan� Town and Gountr�r I�isposal�-�-in rep�.y to carts tipping cr�rer on wa.ndy day�� he indicated th,at he deliberately turned the �ubbermaid car�s an their �ide (they are nc�t qui.te as secure as �he K��art)M He fe�,t cus�omers �hould use c4mmon. sense when plaein$ their garbage out and have it secured. He �.�.nited any persons present to ride in hi� �ark�a�e truck and to exper�.ence first hand. bein� a hauler« �f the decision is made to �c� wi.th the green cart and if pYa�tie ba�s are allowed with �rass in ther�� he felt h� could prob�bly keep his ra�es where they are now. Tt would be mor�� cast effective for him ta invest in the K-earts than to purchase new Gushman$. I��,s a^ates w�.11 nat ga up as rapi,dly as they waul.d Qrc3.�.narly �:�' he daes nat have to trade in ha.s vehicles« Th.as �rauld resu�.t ir� a savi.ngs in eq�ipmen� costs ou�lay. He said that wi�haut a doubt 90� c�f th� garbage in, the U� is hauled fr4m curbside. ' I�' �he ordinance w��°e wri��en to allt�w 4-Ea pl.astic ba�s a1on� the cantainer' then ance �he garbage is picked ups everythir�g is �;one except the K-cart. In t�.me i� will. b�: c�aeap�r for the haul�:r if the K-ear� system is used, he can haul $'I.SfJ per manth per household eheaper in o�her co�munities exeept Apple Va3.le;y„ He wnuld stay with his present charge of �$.50 per mcanth if �he K-cart were used. Mr» Metry wond�red 3f Mr. Tl�ampsoa would be willing ta m�.�.��a. the �1«Sa dif�eren- tial for a period af time in the billing �rocess because of �abor eff�.cie��y and Mr. Thbmpso� said that he would. . K:nut�on stated that the carts have be�n used down South for a number af year�, They are relata.vely new in this area. Both Mr. Knutson and Mr. Thompsan would like ta go with the 9Q �a.11on �arn container. For �n example, a.t has be�n noted that �.n Atlanta� Georgia, miilion� saf dallars have been saved by usin� �he K-car�s, Mr. AslesAn stated that the most expensive wa�r �ta haul �arba�e i� td park �he truck and wal.k up tn the do4r; wa.th the Cushmans, the costs d�crease; but �r�.th the greer� cantaa.ners! the costs are even less. Mr. Thc�mpson stated th�t curb�ide s�rvice is the most efficient. He indicated that it is impos�ibZe ta ,�et people wha are wi7.2ing ta �ct up to the doors and haul cans down to trucks. U�in� the Cushmans are the only way to get peaple whQ are wi,lling to 'haul �arba�e. He cited the hard labor of haulin� 9��a0� Zbs. of garba�e from 1i040 homes in App1e Valley« He and Mr. Knutso�. felt that to a11ow K-cart� on the curb would be the humane aray to care for thei.r garbage haulers. 7. End of Hear3ng--Mr. Asleson informed the Public that the Urban Affaixs _ Gammi�tee with their recommendation to be forwarded ta the City Couneil on July 8. Every c�.ti�en c�f this eommun�.ty has an obligat�.on tn be�.ng �orth their proposals for chan�es. The Urban �,ffairs Committ�e wi11 not please everyane w�.th the recommendation �hey make. �he aesthetic value to the community and the c4st efficien�y �hould be considered. Representa�iv�, Bloomington �anitation---said that if the exper�.mental situation �.e� continuedt �heir costs wot�ld go down substantial,ly beeause of bei�� more efficient a�d i� yard materials were allow�d at curbside. Mr. Fedoruk stated that the telephone survey ma�de by �h�; Urban. Affairs Committ�e and the testimony re�eived at the hearin� carne out in favar of u��.ng the green cdntainers. f}nly �hose pe€�p�.� who did not u�� the �reen cc�ntain�rs spnke against them. Mt7TIC?N: by Mr. Metry' seconded by Ms. I3eters ta adjourn; Meetin� adjourned� $:5$.